Team Developer Future

forum.marketing.feedback (2000-2005) & forum.gupta.marketing (2005-2010)
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Post by NewsgroupServer » 14 Mar 2007, 18:27

 Posted by:  Keith Sandberg 

Martin,

Thanks for remaining open and candid with the loyal TD users here in the
newsgroup. I'm can guess that things haven't been easy for you and the
remaining Gupta "old-timers" since becoming part of Unify. SQL*Windows is
a great tool, the favorite tool I've ever used in my 20-yr programming
career.

I, for one, hope TD 5.1 is a smashing success... can't wait to see the .NET
support.

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 08:27

 Posted by:  Bud 

If you wish to develop talk and viral marketing for the Gupta products,
may I HIGHLY recommend that the Linux version of Team Developer 5.0 be
opened sourced.

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 10:26

 Posted by:  Andreas Neugebauer 

Fully agree, free the core and don't waste many manyears of work.

Andreas

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 12:13

 Posted by:  Yoda 

Yes. i agree..

1)The open source community wont care unless its GPL'ed. If it is
GPL'ed, then there is nothing to prevent them from developing a windows
version and eating away at Gupta. However, this will take 2-3 years
time because TD 5.0 uses components like QICE table window which
is not owned by Gupta. So the open source community needs to develop
its own table window and workaround proprietary components

2)It takes time and effort to GPL something. They need engineers
to scan their codebase and remove all code not owned by Gupta. It
takes months of effort to document the source.

So because of 1) and 2), its not likely it will happen. But...

Gupta can make its money by selling things like ACA, TOM, Object
nationalizer, Diff-Merge, coding assistant, Find Replace, tech support
and of course, SQLBase -like ITG did or like component one/infragrastics
do. Within 2-3 years, the open source community will develop version
1.0 and Gupta can see how they can capitalize on that. Till then, they
can continue current plans with the 4.2 codebase.

I felt that it needed 8-12 months of work for it to work. It seemed to
be on the way to becoming a good product.

However, since we are talking about Gupta Corporation here, it is
100% certain they will prefer the entire 5.0 code to be buried
and choose certain failure to an uncertain future.

Yoda

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 22:26

 Posted by:  Bud 

Yes, I will take 2 or 3 years to get to where an Opened Sourced TD would
be viable to really depend on and be up to spec. But, during that time
there very probably be much activity and talk - viral marketing! Many
companies also try out Open Sourced products and go with a paid "parent"
version - just because of philosophy of a company having the "need" to
pay for a product. Also, Gupta would be in the best position to provide
paid support for such a product. There would definitely be areas for
Gupta to make money.

I cannot stress enough the viral marketing aspect. I have used Gupta
products starting around 1989. I lived through the "Glory Days".
Today, almost NOBODY knows about Gupta products, and Gupta does NOT have
the advertising budget to change that. Open Sourcing could bring alot
of life and vitality back into this product.

Gupta - PLEASE take a chance on life!

As Bill Tilden - once a great tennis player once said about strategy -

"Never change a winning game, always change a losing one."

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 23:20

 Posted by:  Scott Booth 

How do you make money out of giving away a product that will be in direct
competion to a product that you want people to pay for?

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 15 Mar 2007, 23:24

 Posted by:  Bud 

May I suggest re-reading my message more carefully. The first thought
would be paid support. Secondly, add-ons. Thirdly, providing a paid
for alternative ( very appealing for companies who seek to blame someone
other than themselves is something goes wrong ). Fourthly, ... please
use your imagination.

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 16 Mar 2007, 15:24

 Posted by:  Niels Allerheiligen 


IMHO a combined offering of TD and SQLBase will still not stand a chance
against Microsoft's Visual Studio 2005 Express combined with SQL Server
2005 Express at the moment. Visual Studio has all the nifty little
things that we all wish for.

Examples:
- fully working undo
- unicode support
- declaration of public and private variables and classes
- excellent help
- no prehistoric limitations (e.g. cstruct.apl doesn't work with strings
- refactoring

At the moment, I don't see a reason why anyone would choose TD for a new
project. The great advantage TD had, was the ease with which
applications could be developed. Nowadays it's more like a PITA. A good
many times I need to find a workaround for something a modern IDE should
be able to do. So there's no real benefit for me in using TD (apart from
using our legacy code).

TD 5.0 was the chance to move to Linux and therefore avoiding direct
competition with Microsoft's free Express versions. I'm afraid that as
soon as TD can compile to MSIL (as Martin outlined in the mid-term
roadmap), it will disappear - unless the new version will blow us all
away in terms of productivity and the applications created with it will
look modern and polished.

-Niels-

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 19 Mar 2007, 15:45

 Posted by:  Martin Teetz 

All existing applications will inherit Windows XP look in TD 5.1.
For us it is simpler to update IDE and application look at the same time.

Martin

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 19 Mar 2007, 17:15

 Posted by:  Ian Rudge 

Just as we move to Vista.....

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 20 Mar 2007, 14:49

 Posted by:  Martin Teetz 


Windows XP is the basic style, you will also get Office 2007 and Windows
Vista style.

Martin

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 20 Mar 2007, 16:36

 Posted by:  Ian Rudge 

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Post by NewsgroupServer » 21 Mar 2007, 13:27

 Posted by:  Thomas Lauzi 

Hi,
your homepage is not up to date because TD5.0 is still in the whitepapers
(e.g. the compatibility matrix)

Regards,
Thomas L.

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