Three Questions about TD Roadmap

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David Drager

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by David Drager » 05 Sep 2007, 23:21

 Posted by:  David Drager 

Our goal for the TD roadmap is to build a compelling product. This means
developing new versions that convinces your organizations to keep current
with the new releases. To the extent possible this also means convincing TD
users to develop their new applications in TD. At the same time we need to
limit features so that we can deliver working products on time. This means
that prioritization is important.

1. Which improvements to TD (5 or less) would be most important to
convincing your organization or your clients to upgrade?

2. Which goals are most urgent to your organization or your clients?

- Improve Stability and Performance
- Improve Programming Environment
- User Interface: Add more controls & features to existing controls
- Improve the SAL Language - Access Levels, Constructors, Improve
Dynalibs, ...
- Cross-compile TD screens to .Net WinForms (with limitations)
- Build Web Services in TD
- Improve TD Web Application Development
- Improve ReportBuilder

3. Which improvements to TD (5 or less) would be most important to
convincing your organization or your clients to develop new applications or
modules in TD?

Your feedback is important to us. Your answers will be added to feedback we
have already gathered and will help guide us as we build out the details of
our roadmap.

David Drager
VP Product Managment
Unify Corporation

Dave Rabelink
Founder/Site Admin
Founder/Site Admin
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Posts: 1113
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Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Dave Rabelink » 05 Sep 2007, 23:44

 Posted by:  Dave Rabelink 


What I see here, the choice is merely based on politics and
standardisations.

The battle is between Java or .NET.

So I think to keep TD in the picture is to ensure the path to .NET
(forget about Java, it is not the TD domain). Get TD to be a good
choice when projects need to be .NET or native WinOS.

A port from native WinOS TD applications to .NET and keep the TD
environment in that environment will convince not to switch to VB.NET
or C# .NET if there is a SAL.NET.

Here : WebDevelopment definitely not. Pitty to say but there are
better alternatives. I think TD should focus on client/server

User interface is important, at least the default XP like features.

Stability is a must, should be priority with every version.

See 1.

Vladimir Gloushenkov

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Vladimir Gloushenkov » 06 Sep 2007, 03:43

 Posted by:  Vladimir Gloushenkov 

No point in developing web services with TD. IMHO you can't beat ASP.NET
there or in developing Web applications.

But consuming Web services as easily as SqlImmediate or SalTblPopulate at
least for such return type as DataSet of .NET and maybe whatever Java
equivalent would be very nice.

And I mean really - one function called WsImmediate - enjoy data in your
bind variables (maybe cycle FetchNext) or populate table window. No XML
parsing.

Of course this should work through proxies, support all authentication
modes, etc.

HL

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by HL » 06 Sep 2007, 12:16

 Posted by:  HL 

Please see my comments below!

The most interesting features in 5.1 for me are the announced new controls,
particulary the outbar control.

Very important:

1. (Improve) Stability
2. User Interface: Add more controls & features to existing controls

Very nice to have:

3. Improve the SAL Language - Access Levels, Constructors, Improve Dynalibs,
...

Nice to have:

4. Improve Performance
5. Cross-compile TD screens to .Net WinForms (with limitations)
6. Build Web Services in TD

Not so important for me:

7. Improve ReportBuilder

Completely unimportant for me:

8. Improve TD Web Application Development

The most important improvements for this would be new powerful and easy to
use controls. In my opinion, without the data grid and SalTblPopulate TD and
Gupta wouldn't exist any more. This data grid was and is your "killer
feature", and you will need some more of them. The last 10 years (since the
tab control was released) there were no really improvements for my needs,
only the listview is nice to have. I hope TD 5.1 will come with most of the
announced controls. A suggestion for a futher contol could be a easy to use
HTML editor control which can be used like a multiline text field ( 'Select
HTMLCode From MyTable Into :htmlControl' ).

Because you left the linux path, I would recommend you to migrate TD to a
.NET platform which creates native MSIL assemblies that can be linked with
code from other development tools and runs with the standard .NET runtime.

Did you already consider a real native language support were the language
can be switched during startup or runtime? For this purpose the most
critical part are the menues. I saw solutions which uses WinAPI to change
the menu entries, but in this case I don't need a 4gl tool.

A solution could be:

+Menu: MenuFile
Title. &File ! To be compatible and/or as default
language
+Native Languages
+Language
Language Code: E
Title: &File
Status Text: ...
+Language
Language Code: D
Title: &Datei
Status Text: ...
Enabled when:

Kind regards
HL

Thomas Lauzi

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Thomas Lauzi » 06 Sep 2007, 13:03

 Posted by:  Thomas Lauzi 

I agree with Dave.

Yes, thats the point.

Here our ranking:
PRIO 1 - Cross-compile TD screens to .Net WinForms (with limitations)

PRIO 2 - Improve Stability and Performance

PRIO 2 - User Interface: Add more controls & features to existing
controls

Build Web Services in TD - IMHO Webservices are a hype today. In our
projects we have to integrate several foreign systems, but we only once
consumed webservices. Many systems do not provide webservices nowadays. So
the integration of websevices is important, but in 1 year when the hype is
over and all system provide websevices and it is standard, then there is a
really need I think.

Regards,
Thomas L.

Yoda

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Yoda » 06 Sep 2007, 15:34

 Posted by:  Yoda 

HTML editor control which can be used like a multiline text field (
'Select > HTMLCode From MyTable Into :htmlControl' ).>>>

Have you attempted to use Scintilla? It has inbuilt HTML editor and you
can manipulate it using what are known as lexers. The source code is
available as a SalExtension library. Also available in the Iceteagroup
site as an article along with downloadable code.

Thank you
Karthik

James McCall

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by James McCall » 06 Sep 2007, 17:09

 Posted by:  James McCall 

Regarding question 1 ...

A question like this was always going to produce a final list that features
every possible improvement and without a consensus on the priority! (I guess
you did get a fairly clear picture about not bothering with TD as a web
development tool).

Can I be bold enough to suggest that you first turn your attention to issues
that have no work-around? Things that jump to mind are:
- performance (simply adding genuine integer data type would probably get
you a long way)
- unicode
- locale aware sorting (in lists, tables and VisArraySort) and other sorting
options
- size limitations (outline size, stack depth, cstructl memory size)
- support of ActiveX
- Modern GUI (not for us, for our end-users)

I guess some of these are already taken care of (GUI & Unicode) in your
"about-to-be-released" version.

Most people would probably answer question 1 based on their conscious or
sub-conscious consideration of questions 2 & 3!

Thanks for listening.
James McCall

Yoda

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Yoda » 06 Sep 2007, 18:44

 Posted by:  Yoda 

There are so many wishes posted. Many of them have posted here
repeatedly by different people. Also, the TD 5.0 forums had a similiar
thread with things missing. deja.com archives of wishlist is also a good
source.

The topmost ones in each section are the most important

TD Language
1)Constructor
2)More TD datatypes for performance
3)Private/Public functions in classes.
4)Remove all 64KB limitations everywhere !
5)New Functions to do
1)Stopping long running SQL Statements
2)
SalSendMsgToChildrenOfClass ( hWnd, nMsg,sClassNames[*], nMywParam,
nMylParam )
Sends message to children of classes specified in Array format.
Needed for performance reasons when you have lot of objects in form.

3)SalSendMsgToChildrenOfType ( hWnd, nMsg,nTypeMask ,nMywParam,
nMylParam )
Sends message to all objects of type specified. One or more window
types combined (using the OR (|) operator) to create a mask of child
window types. Needed for performance reasons.

TD IDE
1)Proper **working** Intellisal. Please refer to the various threads on
this topic.
2)BookMarks
3)Proper Undo/Redo facility.
4)A facility to enter SQL rapidly. You can have a SQL ASsistant similiar
to a coding assistant.
5)Ability to move objects with mouse in the IDE
6)You could have a place to store the default vertical object spacing in
"Preferences" section. Then have a button in the "Arrange" toolbar
called "Set to default Vertical spacing". Once i click it, the distance
between the objects is set to whatever the default distance specified in
the PReferences. This is real real great to have

TD Debugging
1)Dynalib debugging + Bugfixrs. This would be great to have
2)SQLDebugString: Again, refer wishlist to see the amount of responses
to this.

TD Irritants.
These are not new features as such. But things which need workarounds
1)Ability to type constants in any order.
2)The really messy TOM UI.

HL

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by HL » 07 Sep 2007, 10:26

 Posted by:  HL 


Thanks for the hint. I needed such a control some years ago, but I decided
not to
implement the feature to my software. I'm (over?) cautious with external
stuff because I used
cnui.dll and now it is no longer available for newer TD releases, I use an
oxc control but
the supplier doesn't exist any more (I pray it will run under Vista) ... :(

And last but not least I will not pay 3000 Euro for a compiler which's main
purpose is to call
external stuff. In this case, I will use Eclipse, SharpDevelop or VS.

Kind regards
HL

Yoda

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Yoda » 07 Sep 2007, 11:55

 Posted by:  Yoda 

You wont have such problems with scintilla. The source is available in
an extremely liberal license and grants the user permission to do
anything he wants. Its being used in dozens of open source projects and
thats the reason i use it too. You can check scintilla.org

It is very unlikely it will stop working with a future version of TD

Thank you
Karthik

David Drager

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by David Drager » 07 Sep 2007, 15:50

 Posted by:  David Drager 


HL,

I am not sure which control we will use as a starting point for the Editor
Control. But be assured that we will have the full source and full rights
to maintain it ourselves if we have to. We have always used third-party
components. There is a huge difference between a control that we fully
integrate into the TD environment and a DLL you call directly. Every day
every TD programmmer uses features that were partially implemented from
third-party code.

Regards,

David

Jeff Luther
Site Admin
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United States of America
Posts: 2167
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Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Jeff Luther » 07 Sep 2007, 16:53

 Posted by:  Jeff Luther 

Correction, HL:
"I used cnui.dll and now it is no longer available for newer TD releases" - That
is not true. This issue came up some time ago and I have in a George Panov dir.
all versions from CTD v1.1 -- TD v4.2 (I'm tempted to attach zips of all vers.
to this msg, but don't want to clog the system.)

Which version do you need?

Best Regards,
Jeff @ PC Design
info. & samples: www.JeffLuther.net/gupta/

HL

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by HL » 10 Sep 2007, 09:00

 Posted by:  HL 


I need the version for 4.2 (and later 5.1). I patched a version for 3.1 with
a hex editor and this modified dll works, but that's not a solution which I
would use for a production system. Do you know why George Panov's web page
is offline?

Thanks in advance!
HL

Jeff Luther
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United States of America
Posts: 2167
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 18:34
Location: Palm Springs, California

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by Jeff Luther » 10 Sep 2007, 17:16

 Posted by:  Jeff Luther 

Here's v4.2 for you. (Anyone else need another version, let me know. I
have CTD v1.1 -- TD v4.2.)

As to George's site: http://www.sqlwindows.ru/ has a note on it:
"This domain may be for sale" - there you go.

- Jeff

Attachment: CNUI42.zip

HL

Three Questions about TD Roadmap

Post by HL » 11 Sep 2007, 10:24

 Posted by:  HL 


Thanks a lot!

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