What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

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What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Charlie » 07 Dec 2020, 21:00

As I find myself unemployed since last Thursday's unceremonious turfing o' me after a largely fantastic career since 1995, I now more so than ever look back and think: of all things, what is it about Gupta Team Developer that has always made me such a happy camper?

Aside from the ridiculously gratifying work, absolutely wonderful people (colleagues and clients) supporting a wildly interesting business (Capital Construction Project Management of government buildings and Facilities Management), working with Gupta Team Developer always made the work so easy and so enjoyable.

Why? I can't think of all the reasons off the top of my head. And I can't help but be curious about your reasons.

To start things off:

My top reason, and one I've had since first seeing SQLWindows code in the early to middle-ish 90's:

The SAL outline specifically, and the way Gupta Team Developer organises code generally!!! I have ADHD (attention deficiency subtype), and everything grabs at my attention. Everything about how Gupta Team Developer organises code matches the way I think, and it totally fits my need to structure an overwhelming amount of details.

Before seeing SQLWindows for the first time, and to this day, I know of no other programming language, and no other IDE, that does as wonderful a job as Gupta Team Developer regarding organisation of code

If you are interested in this wee philosophical journey of love: what are your thoughts about the above, and/or what things do you love about Gupta Team Developer?

ASIDE: I'm sure there are loads of thoughts about things to not love (or even loathe), but I'm really interested about the "loves" and "likes", to see if there are things I've never thought of (which would be really cool.)
Last edited by Charlie on 09 Dec 2020, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve Leighton
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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Steve Leighton » 08 Dec 2020, 05:03

Gidday Charlie
Sorry to hear tidings of 'unemployment' - maybe lets just say 'redeployment' towards better things.
Great idea about postings positive - but am assuming you would include all things Gupta - as I have similar emotions towards SQLBase .

I really like the fact that back in 1984 Mr Umang Gupta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umang_Gupta broke away from Oracle saying 'I can do this way better'. He sure did - and despite heavy competition from ForrestandTrees, Delphi, Smalltalk and Power Builder etc, his masterpieces are still going strong-ish. Not only TD but SQLBase and Report Builder.

Not many environments can claim similar popularity ( and still being developed ) 35 years later. That's pretty unique !

Also enjoy how the environment is so open. TD will connect to any dB , some natively without ODBC or OLE getting in the way. And likewise SQLBase gives up it wares and welcomes any foreign invader.

Best of luck moving onto your next TD challenge !

p.s. If you're a Gupta fanatic - purist and inclined to praise all things Gupta no-matter what , you can still connect with Umang Gupta on LinkedIn. If it wasn't for his vision, we'd be moaning and groaning about Delphi right now, or be just another C# statistic. https://www.linkedin.com/in/umangguptakeynote/

p.p.s Any negative posts on this thread will be deleted forthwith :cry:
Greetings from New Zealand
Steve Leighton

Bankside Systems Ltd.
UK ♦ Australia ♦ New Zealand



Dave Rabelink
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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Dave Rabelink » 08 Dec 2020, 10:18

These things come to mind thinking about what is appealing to Team Developer.
  • Outline editor
Developers are guided to use a fixed structure for code.
Constants are always at the same place. Classes can be found in the appropriate section. Indentation is always the same.
Easy collapse/expand code which is kept when copy/paste.

Opening any source from any developer will have at least a structured management of those code elements.
You do not need to investigate a mess of files and code locations to find what you are looking for.

  • Backward compatibility
When projects are using mainly SAL code and default structures and GUI handling, even projects which are 30 years old can be opened and run in the latest TD versions.
Certainly, when using WinAPI or extra "hacks" could lead to issues when converting from old to new.
But in general. There are not a lot of issues running old TD applications (as is, even TD 1.5 runs ok on Win10) and getting it to the latest version.

(try that with VB6 or any old project in other dev environments).

  • Small learning curve
When used to the outline editor, to create a project having GUIs and database access is easy. Just out of the box.
No need to first create a template project having all initialization in order to get your first form application running.

Classes are very intuitive in TD. To learn OOP is forced by the outline editor and the way classes vs UDV's work.

Every GUI object has all in one location. The attributes (like position, visual settings etc) and their events (messages) and functions (in their classes) are to be found where you expect them to be.
Where is the click on a button implemented? At the button message actions.
Not in an obscure file somewhere put along side all the other events of the form or several other GUI objects.
That is neat.

  • No need to first have a course on project and build settings
Anyone tried to download a c# or c++ sample from internet and try to load into your Visual Studio, press build and go?
Big chance you first have to setup project settings, define the correct Win SDK"s, upgrade to the VS studio version, download the needed add-ons.
And inspect all the obscure build settings with hundreds of build options, switches, pragma's etc etc.

In TD: define what type of build and press build.

  • Easy to implement and understand SAL vs WinAPI
When SAL is not enough, WinAPI can be used everywhere. The language and the runtime has a close link to the operating system.
So implementing new stuff without SAL is possible. Need extra stuff, find the c++ implementation and port that to TD code.
When you are a TD developer using WinAPI, you know what the OS wants and how it does it. So you learn much more about how Windows is actually working.
The structure of TD code mixed with WinAPI looks natural.

  • Dynalibs
One of the best features of TD. Modular applications.
Though it did not get much love from Gupta, feature wise, it is a powerful way to create modular applications which makes release management a breeze.

  • SalCompileAndEvaluate
Powerful beast. I love how this function gives so much extra possibilities.

  • CDK
Easy and intuitive way to automate code generation and offers ways to enhance IDE and create extra tools for your sources or even at runtime.

  • ActiveX implementation
Using explorer, generate your classes and create custom ones. And all in one location, as expected in TD IDE.

  • IDE/runtime low footprint
Easy to install and understand. Fairly compact. In most cases even xcopy compatible.

  • TD integration in c++
Need to call TD functions in c++? Create extra functionality in c++ which seamlessly integrate at runtime?
The TD API is available. You can mix it as you like.
Dave Rabelink

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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by ozmenbetul » 09 Dec 2020, 08:54

Thank you very much for this post.

Good luck Charlie for the "way to re-employment" period, as Steve says. I wish the best for you.

I'm the one who voted for SqlWindows twenty years ago, when my company was in search for a new language to replace the COBOL software.
The choices were Visual Basic and Progress. A colleague told about SqlWindows, he saw the presentation of it in a fair and suggested us to have a look at the demo.

The time I saw the IDE and practised it a bit, without any knowledge how it works, I just tried a few things and said: "Yes, this is what we want".

I've developed for 15 years with Gupta in the same company. Then I left that job, used different technologies, and these days I'm turning back with TD Mobile.


* The IDE is compact and for me it's perfect. Yes, organized, as you say. I feel comfortable while developing.

* It's easy to learn the basic concepts. I recorded a video of 10 lessons and every new developer joining our team was able to learn Gupta basics and how we structured our project with it, and begin coding by watching them, even without asking questions to me.

So it's easy to learn,

*and you develop fastly.

*Sal library and Visual Toolchest is powerfurl.

*The executable runs fast, as well.

Best regards,

Giorgio Bravi
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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Giorgio Bravi » 09 Dec 2020, 11:52

Good luck for your work.

As for Team Developer, after 25 years of use since Centura 1.0 what still convinces me today are:
  • Backward compatibility
Today we are migrating to 7.3 from 5.2 and the only adjustments depend on the fact that we wanted to use the new Tabs
  • CDK
This allowed us to quickly create our own framework. The ERP suite we later developed is used today by more than 600 companies. Very stable and performing.
  • Learning curve
The structure of the language is very simple to learn and, after an initial period of adaptation, very comfortable.

And finally during the migration to 7.3 we are also experimenting with the use of WPF controls. Really intriguing and can be a valid opportunity to make the look and feel more modern and integrate solutions developed in .Net

After the "plus" also some "minus":
  • The difficulty in finding (at least in Italy) already trained programmers
  • Non-diffusion also limits the desire to experience this environment and it is increasingly difficult to convince programmers who come from other experiences
But in the end I am very happy to have chosen it back in 1995!!
Giorgio Bravi

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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Charlie » 09 Dec 2020, 20:24

G'day all,

First, thank-you for well-wishes. All I can say is "don't cry for me Argentina" as I ponder over the question: "now, what do I want to do when I grow up?"

Thank you so much for taking the time to relay your thoughts about the things you appreciate regarding Gupta Team Developer.

It is some really great reading. A little dose of really good therapy!

To me, I know of nothing that does "code folding" anywhere near as nicely as Gupta SQLWindows / Team Developer (if you do know of any stiff competition in that area, let me know!). That way of drilling into (expanding) the details yet staying within a chain-of-context-thinking (I have no idea what to call it?) has always been a ridiculously significant cognitive helper for me, That code folding implementation is a thing of beauty to these beholding eyes.

Cheers !

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Re: What do you love about Gupta Team Developer ?

Post by Charlie » 09 Jan 2023, 22:34

Just a bump of this thread, and intertwingled thoughts revolving around loving Gupta Team Developer and going "Charlie: international man of Squeely Windows consulting".

I've been on an international consulting gig with a client who found me here in July 2021. Mind-boggling serendipity.
Amazing client, fantastic people, awesome business not far removed from the other client's business I supported for 25 years. I'm getting the kind of love/respect/support/recognition from this client I never got from the management I had to deal with in the last three years of my career. (Someday, I might write a public letter about my experience as a SNB employee IF and when I recover from the trauma of that gong show. I had thought of human rights complaint, but I could not stomach the thought of reliving my last 1.5 years in particular.)

Back to love...
I'm in the process of moving a bunch of applications from Gupta Team Developer 4.1 to Gupta Team Developer 7.3, fixing bugs along the way and improving things that were really not done right (lack of Gupta Team Developer familiarity, and too many different people maintaining the code over the years. i.e. inconsistency.)

Although I am really seasoned (as in Gupta Team Developer experience but, yeah, age too), it still blows me a way how easy it is to bring old "legacy" Gupta Team Developer applications right to the modern age: not just look and feel, but injecting all kinds of new features to turn these old and tired workhorse applications into real stallions !!!

Man, after all of these years: does Gupta Team Developer ever rock something silly. I feel like I could as a team of 1 run circles around a "team of many using any other product."

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