CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

forum.gupta.bugreport (2005-2010)
Mirko
Italy
Posts: 1299
Joined: 04 Apr 2017, 08:56
Location: Geneva

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Mirko » 19 Jan 2007, 17:43

 Posted by:  Mirko BONANNO 

Yes I know I think he loves us so much that he cannot resist :-)

Suren told me he might come as special guest in 2007 DevCon (Looking forward
to seeing you again Charlie :-)

Mirko

Jim McNamara

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Jim McNamara » 19 Jan 2007, 17:54

 Posted by:  Jim McNamara 


http://www.guptaworldwide.com/Company/Contact.aspx

I don't work for Gupta - Just a long time supporter. They've saved me
literally years of work with the tools they sell.

Mike Vandine

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Mike Vandine » 21 Jan 2007, 00:05

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine 

Hi Ingo,

This is not always the case. There are lots of defects reported and
Engineering has to determine the order in which they will be fixed. They
look at various things, including how many users the problem is affecting
(ie. is it a global problem that everyone is having that stops the product
from working or is it just affecting one person), is the problem already
fixed in a later version of the product, who is screaming for this fix, etc.

Here are your options for reporting problems. This is from the Gupta
website:

The Gupta Newsgroups:

"GUPTA's Online Newsgroups is the place for GUPTA users to exchange
information about GUPTA products and services. Users can post questions and
respond to others. "

This is for the community to talk to each other and help each other out with
problems that they have experienced. Gupta does NOT guarantee to read
anything in these forums, respond to any messages or fix any defects
reported here. Sometimes we do pick up problems that are affecting the
whole community and make a fix of a defect, but normally by the time a
problem of that type is put on the newsgroup one of our customers who pays
for Technical Support has already reported the issue and we are already
working on it.

Gupta Log-A-Bug:

"GUPTA's product releases owe much to valued customer input. GUPTA's
dedicated engineering group is always receptive to customers' telling us
when things don't work the way they should.

This automated service contains a brief series of questions designed to
capture as much information as possible, as simply as possible.

The Log-A-Bug service is a collection station that funnels the input
provided by customers directly into Engineering. The individual entries will
be compiled with others and assessed for inclusion in future PTFs and
releases. The process is anonymous, which facilitates the quick delivery of
the bug notification to Engineering, but does not accomodate personalized
replies or updates on an individual bug."

Please note that this is a 'collection station' for problems. If we find
that something reported IS a defect, we will log that defect and Engineering
will then determine if and when it will get fixed. Obviously, the more
people who report a particular problem to Log-A-Bug, the more Engineering
will be aware of the scope of the problem and how it's affecting the
community at large.

Technical Support Contract:
"Our Telephone Support Options allow customers to call the technical support
hotline and talk with a Technical Support Engineer. Telephone support is
sold on a product group basis for a company or department. You purchase the
right to have a certain number of specific individuals call the technical
support hotline for questions or issues related to the product group covered
by your support agreement. These specific people can call an unlimited
number of times throughout the year.

For general questions and answers about GUPTA's Support options, please
check out the FAQs."

This is the best way to get a bug fixed. Not only does a Technical Support
contract allow you to contact us for a quick resolution to questions or
problems that you might be having with the use of our products, it also
allows you to report defects, 'push' us for a resolution and have us look
for workarounds for the defect while it is being fixed.

I don't think that ANY software vendor would tell you this.

Ditto.

No, TD3.1 is out of Engineering support and was retired from Technical
Support in March 2006 (although we will STILL try to help you out with
problem resolution if you have a TS contract ).

Have a look at the product life cycle statement on the website:

http://www.guptaworldwide.com/Products/Product_life_cycle.aspx

Hope this helps in your understanding.

Best regards,

Mike

Jeff Luther
Site Admin
Site Admin
United States of America
Posts: 2370
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 18:34
Location: Palm Springs, California

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Jeff Luther » 21 Jan 2007, 03:23

Good feedback, Mike! Let me add my 2 cents about what version(s) of TD
will get a PTF. Per Ingo's question:

>>Will there be a PTF 5 for TD 3.1?<<
Mike's response:
"No, TD3.1 is out of Engineering support... Have a look at the product
life cycle statement on the website"

I think it's important for everyone to understand this fact: Gupta is
*only* supporting these versions -- per their life cycle page:
www.guptaworldwide.com/Products/Product_life_cycle.aspx

and no version ever get any more PTFs except v4.1(TD2005.1) and the
new v5. Those are the only versions that are being supported and the
only ones that will get fixes. And for v4.1 this is TBD, per Gupta's
"Date will follow" note that they don't know or won't say for how long.

I think it's important to note this because it seems to me lots of folks
here -- given the msgs. referencing older TD versions -- are still
working with a version older than v4.1 and even with Ingo's issues of
finding a bug with v3.1, as I remember (because I worked at Gupta years
ago, with 2 years in QA), bugs got 'preferential' treatment, based on:

-- Mike's comments about how severe, how many people affected, who can
'squeak' the loudest, who is on support, is a BIG customer complaining,
is it happening with the currently supported versions, etc. are correct.

-- The next question, it seems to me, is: "Is this bug still a problem
in the versions of TD we *are* supporting?" Sad but tough luck, I guess,
if the answer is "No".

-- I also remember another 'filter' in the process: "Is there a work-
around for the problem?" (And I don't mean like the old doctor joke:
Patient: "Doctor, when I do this it *really* hurts!"
Doctor: "Well, don't *do* that!")

-- There is good news/bad news with much of life, I guess, including TD:
BAD: Nearly all of us here do not work for Gupta and cannot directly affect
changes. (And Kudos to Mike V. @ gupta for still getting onto this NG!)

GOOD: I believe the general feeling is that those of us who can, try and
often do, help, and we can help by providing workarounds (or fixes, because
they are coding issues) when we are able (and they are available).

This is why I still have 5 versions of TD on my machine. (Well, 6, but no
one's asking about the old 16-bit SQLWindows v5 anymore! BTW, anyone not
know, or remember, what it looked like? I've attached a zip of the startup
"newapp" screen with about box info. Primitive, I know, but hey it was an
early -- likely the first -- IDE for Windows!)

Do I have 5 versions installed because I like seeing all my "C:\GuptaTDxx"
directories? No... It's because we 'outsiders' are still trying to 'support'
earlier versions of TD.

Which leads me to: "If we cannot run your problem, we cannot help you fix
it or find a workaround" Sooo... attach a small demo test case which fails!
That helps us, which helps you. (Oh, and be sure to include in the zip any
and all APLs, ICOs, etc. that are needed to run your test case.)

Naturally, I am speaking as an end user only, just like most of you. And
Gupta's opinion "may vary", so take my comments as just another NG visitor
with a little early Saturday evening to spend on the newsgroup.

Best Regards,
Jeff @ PC Design
info: www.JeffLuther.net/gupta/

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Dave Rabelink
Founder/Site Admin
Founder/Site Admin
Netherlands
Posts: 3390
Joined: 24 Feb 2017, 09:12
Location: Gouda, The Netherlands

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Dave Rabelink » 21 Jan 2007, 09:12

That may be true. But there are many examples of vendors actually
giving customers good and detailed info and help on bugs.

Some nice examples on the Sun website :

http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/index.jsp
http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator/reference/docs/buglist/

Delphi

http://info.borland.com/devsupport/delphi/fixes/delphi5/index.html

I agree that reporting bugs does not automatically mean they will be
solved. But the way Gupta now offers help on finding, reporting,
browsing bugs and giving workarounds for them is not easy.
It can be improved to service developers better.

One of the things I would like to see :

1) A clear and central point to access list of known bugs and
bugfixes. Linked to that the found workarounds. It should offer a
search option to search for issues in a database and list any
workaround.

Example of a bug and the way it could become valuable for
customers/developers :
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4670071

2) As you can see on the last example, the severity for customers is
shown. It is rated. Let the customers decide which bug has more
priority. It does not mean the vendor must adapt that priority, but at
least it is transparent to the customer. Right now, the priorities are
totally invisible. The customer can see that the bug is a problem for
more people. At least this could offer more confidence. Also the
remarks on the issue by developers is valuable. The list of remarks
actually help developers who struggle with a bug and by having the
option to comment on the issue the customer is serviced better.

3) Have a webbased forum or support page which is now scattered
between the Gupta website and this forums. At large companies like
mine it is not allowed to use these kind of forums. The only way I can
browse and post is at home.
There should be a link between this forum and the website. Al least
browse and post messages in both portals.
Why not having a webbased and newsreader based forum using the same
database ?
Newsreaders are more performant and customized. Webpages are
accessible from everywhere. Combine the database and create a
webprotal and newsreader portal for it.

Dave.

Dave Rabelink
Founder/Site Admin
Founder/Site Admin
Netherlands
Posts: 3390
Joined: 24 Feb 2017, 09:12
Location: Gouda, The Netherlands

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Dave Rabelink » 21 Jan 2007, 10:18

What i forgot to mention is the issue of "What to expect".

We are at the point of porting our apps from TD3.1 to TD4.x

What I really miss is a clear way to determine what issues to expect
concerning bugs and solved bugs.

Right now I have to browse a text document and read the fixed buglist.
The descriptions in that list are very compact. Some issues need some
explanation in what places the defect can be found.

Also it is not clear in which versions and PTF's the bugs are present.
Is a fixed bug an old one ? Does my source in TD version X already
have this bug and is it fixed in TD version Y ? If so, did i made a
workaround for it and can it be removed when i port to version Y ?

If I port from version X to version Y PTF Z, which bugs have been
introduced in the destination version and all subsequent PTF's ?

If I know there is a bug in the destination version which was not
present in my source version, and I'm aware of this, I could take
action in testing the issue and find a workaround (or better use the
workaround others have found).

Right now the complete application must be tested in hoping to find
issues. Having a known list of issues saves me lot of time. I then
know where to look for. Right now it is trial & error.

If my application depends on functionality Y and it is reported that
TD version X PTF Z has issues with that functionality, but an older
PTF has not, I can deside not to port to the latest PTF and port it to
the PTF which has not that defect.

So as developer I have major advantages in having a good bug and
issues database with clear descriptions about which TD versions are
affected and which workarounds could be installed.

This helps me calculating the time to port and focus on issues. My
customer can be better serviced by giving more accurate estimations
how long a port will take and developers can focus on the new issues
or by removing awkward old workarounds which are not needed anymore.

I think that anyone would like to have some sort of bug database and
services around it like in the links I have posted earlier and that
everyone here has to admit that the current bug service level of the
TD environment can be improved.

Untill then I urge developers who have found issues (and workarounds)
post it in de bugreport forum so others can benefit from them by
posting defect numbers and clear descriptions and testcases to show
the bugs.

Dave

Mike Vandine

Re: CTD bug cause overwriting of process memory

Post by Mike Vandine » 28 Jan 2007, 00:16

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the great feedback. I have passed your suggestions to the PTB.

Best regards,

Mike

Return to “gupta.bugreport”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: [Ccbot] and 0 guests