forum.marketing.feedback (2000-2005) & forum.gupta.marketing (2005-2010)
Posted by: Martin Teetz
Dear Team Developer users,
The inital roadmap for the future of Team Developer is set and I want to
share the highlights with you.
We will concentrate on the Windows platform for the next Team Developer
releases, providing many User Interface enhancements and a path to .Net.
Cross platform and Linux will not be maintained for Team Developer
The development of Team Developer 5.1 uses the stable TD 4.2 codeline.
This means add-ons like mtable and ITG tools should work just fine :-)
Regarding Web Development we will maintain Web Application Manager and
will continue to provide that part in the next Team Developer releases.
Ultimately Team Developer Web development will be brought onto the .Net
platform with things like ASP.NET.
Team Developer 5.1 is planned for end of July this year and we want to
provide the following:
- New IDE GUI based on Office 2007 look and feel
- Many new application controls including Office 2007 look and feel,
without breaking the existing controls. Target is 100% backward
- ActiceX clean-up, fix many issues and really support many more ActiveX
- Consume Web Services by pointing to a WSDL file and have TD create the
Mid term roadmap (during the next year)
- Provide Team Developer Web Services (shortly after the 5.1 release)
- Compile applications to .Net
- .Net Web Applications
I hope this is in-line with what most of you are looking for.
Worldwide Director of Product Marketing
Posted by: Ian Rudge
Thank heavens for that!
Jonas Mandahl Pedersen
Posted by: Jonas Pedersen
That is sweet music to my small ears. :-)
Looking forward to see more details about this.
I would like to wish all in the development team good luck.
May the force be with you on this one.
If you need more ideas I got loads :-).
Posted by: Rainer Ebert
That sounds good and is what I would like to see.
Posted by: Joachim Engel
Will there be efforts to improve TD 4.2 before?
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Posted by: Arunas
For me its seems slow agony. The user interface enhancements are worthless.
It's was my last renewal of GLS.
Posted by: Niels Allerheiligen
I think that the UI of the IDE should not be too high on the priority
list. IMHO the main problem is that the applications developed with TD
look outdated. To improve the look and feel of our applications was one
of my hopes for TD 5.0.
However, if this cannot be achieved without changing the IDE first,
please ignore me. ;)
Posted by: Thomas Lauzi
I doesn?t mind, how the IDE looks, but how our applications look, developed
with TD, this is the main point. The applications developed with TD look
outdated, not the IDE.
Are they for development, so that we could use them? This would be very
But all "old" controls should support XP-Style native as minimum and should
Would be nice..
Alltogether it sounds really really good, and I?m hopefully and excited...
This is really the last chance for Gupta, so use it and deliver quality!!
Posted by: Yoda
Very good point. You nailed the exact thing i thought. Did Gupta learn
from its yellowstone experience? They spent a lot of time developing
outdated themes for the IDE. Who cares how it looks?. Does anyone care
if Windows XP has 3 colors or 2?. Or Billy boy announces 4 more new
Gupta: The IDE needs to be PRODUCTIVE and USER FRIENDLY IN NAVIGATION.
It need not have office 2007. Not many care a hoot if it looks like
APPLICATIONS need to look good as Thomas pointed out. And Office 2007
look will be welcome here.
Dont waste your time making your IDE look like Office 2007 !.
Bottom Line(s) (And please put this somewhere prominently so
your engineering can see this everyday)
The IDE needs to get more and more PRODUCTIVE with every version.
That means if it takes 2 minutes to do something now, it needs
to take 1 minute in the next version. The APPLICATIONS DEVELOPED on the
IDE need to get prettier and prettier.
Please understand this difference. The same mistake(not realizing the
difference between the IDE and applications developed using the IDE) led
to the yellowstone caldera erupting last month. You spent enormous time
doing extremely wasteful things.
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Posted by: Jason Veniot
Thanks for the update.
We're still on version 2.1
Our priorities include, in descending order of importance:
- Ease of migration (compatibility)
- Consuming Web Services
- PDF output for Report Builder
- How our apps look
- Data model documentation for Team Object Manager, to create customized
The Team Developer IDE works fine for us. Unless your new IDE requires
little effort to include in the next version (or it requires too much effort
to extricate it from the next version), then keep it for another version
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I agree totally.
At my side here there is need to improve stability, runtime
performance, enhancements to the SAL/VT library and new usable
features in the core language (like new or improved OO features) and
major improvements on the compiler. Next to that up-2-date controls to
be able to create the GUI's our customers want.
The TD IDE right now (the latest 4.2 version) is productive. There
could be improvements, but the looks are not included.
Visually rich interfaces only increase loading times and deminish
resources and IDE performance.
There are many wishlists posted here at the forum by many developers
in the past. Seems Gupta needs to publically debate about them to see
what we really want.
.NET seems to me a good mid term goal. Also better AX support and
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Just to make a start, look at my wishlist I have posted earlier on the
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In the last two-three years (you can multiply it by five), I do see just
words about new and improved code, etc...
I'm not saying that I had just payed my last GLS, as I am depending on TD a
lot, but this is the very last credit I'm willing to give.
The time limit Gupta has just announced is VERY short. And, I don't say
that it cannot be done, but..., just look at the announcement Martin
(Gupta) did on 18.12.2006, and the things that where promised then and
compare them with the actual TD5.0 release.
Martin, don't get me wrong, but is Guptify capable of doing it?
Well, we'll see...
Just my 2cents.
Posted by: Beta Tester
Incredible how many "last chances" a company like GUPTA is able to get :)
All what is promised here now for the n-th time (remember that a TD.NET had
already been promised in Strassburg in 2003!!! See my attached summary of
this DevCon!) had never been delivered so far. We could have all of this for
a while now if not so many efforts had been directed on things (like Linux)
which the entire community never really asked for! Also UNICODE in TD could
be available since a long time (trust me I know what I am talking about!)!
For the records: The opinion expressed here is my personal opinion and not
neccessarily the opinion of the company that I am working for!
Attachment: Summary of the Gupta Developers Conference 2003.pdf
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Posted by: Scott Booth
I applaud this step by Gupta, but lament its necessity. Still, well done -
I'm sure it was a difficult decision. Gupta has a long history of flying
off & producing something outside their core area of expertise which they
are subsequently unable to effectively market while its existing customer
base feels a little pushed into the background. I'm choosing to see this as
a positive sign that those days are gone, never to return. I look forward
to Gupta doing what made it great and increasing market share by focusing on
understanding that market and delivering customer needs.
DELIVERING is the keyword here. So far, people have talked more about the
technical aspects but I'd like to raise another issue - the delivery
channel. As an example, the artice in the previous post was written by a
Gupta partner who has been a huge contributer to the Gupta comunity over the
years. Gupta terminated their partnership in June 2005 by (allegedly)
writing to customers before even contacting their ex-partner. Here in
Australia, our local distributer has also been dumped on short notice in
favor of a company who describe themselves as "a software development and
service organisation specialising in solutions for the Community Services
division of Australian Local Government Councils". I'm not having a go at
them - they may well be absolutly, awesomely mind-bendingly briliant at what
they do (and do an equally fantastic job as a Gupta partner), however as an
existing customer, I haven't been contacted to let me know what they can
offer and since I'm not working for the government (esp not an isolated
division of local government), I wouldn't know. A bit of rebuilding bridges
with past partners (and adding new ones) surely wouldn't hurt your sales. I
would think that decreasing the number and expertise of people selling a
product would decrease the sales of that product.
Someone suggested open-sourcing TD. Personnaly, I think it would be better
for Gupta to keep control of TD and use it as a vehicle for pushing other
products. If the cost of developing TD is too high, you may consider doing
the opposite; scaling back on development (once the product is stable and at
least some of the core promises have been delivered) and bundeling it with
SQLBase. SQLBase (esp single user) obviously faces heavy competition with
free offerings from Microsoft, Oracle, etc, ect. A feature by feature
comparison between SQLBase single user & SQLServer Express comes out mighty
close until you get to the price. Adding value to SQLBase with TD would
realy make the combined offering stand out from the rest of the pack. Just
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