What we need ...

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J. G. Mischke

What we need ...

Post by J. G. Mischke » 16 Feb 2004, 08:51

 Posted by:  J. G. Mischke 


I've heard, that SqlBase is ported on Linux. But who need it? There's a lot
of good databases (like MySQL, PostgreSql and so on).

What we need is a SqlWindows IDE for Linux, easy to use! (Theres nothing
like this for Linux, a simple 4GL-Programm like SqlWindows would be a great
thing)

Am I right or not???

StefanM
Germany
Posts: 676
Joined: 10 Aug 2018, 15:57
Location: Bavaria

What we need ...

Post by StefanM » 16 Feb 2004, 19:20

 Posted by:  Stefan Misch 

This was discussed at the last Gupta DevCon 2003 in Strasbourg.

To make a long story short:

(1) there was a stong demand for SQLBase on LINUX, that's why Gupta choose
to go that way (main reason is that more and more customers don't like M$-OS
as their server platform, but they like SQLBase)

(2) there was no demand for a LINUX version SQLWindows IDE, but there was a
demand for a LINUX based SQLWindows runtime, although there were not so many
hands up as for (1). Gupta also demonstrated a small app running on a Suse
LINUX box using a Windows emulator (don't ask me which, I forgot).

Stefan

Sherlock

What we need ...

Post by Sherlock » 17 Feb 2004, 22:23

 Posted by:  Sherlock 

>

Delphi can do it. Its called Kylix - the Linux version of Delphi
It was shipped long back. But Borland is not doing well. They are
getting slaughtered by Billy boy. A week ago or so, Bill Gates eloped
with some top Borland programmers.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14806.html

Karthik


--

Freeware tool for SQLBASE with tons of features
Please visit http://www.iceteagroup.com/Products/SqlEngineer.htt

J. G. Mischke

What we need ...

Post by J. G. Mischke » 18 Feb 2004, 08:12

 Posted by:  J. G. Mischke 


Yes, I know Kylix, but it is not a real 4GL-Language and not so fast in
Development like SqlWindows. I've tried it, but I think, SqlWindows for
Linux could be a good Tool.

Juergen

Sherlock

What we need ...

Post by Sherlock » 18 Feb 2004, 19:08

 Posted by:  Sherlock 

Ideally it should be cross platform. But Gupta relies heavily on
microsoft architecture. COM/ActiveX etc. does not work on Linux. Star
Office (www.openoffice.org) is one of the few tools which can run both
on linux as well as windows. The German company that originally
developed the star office code wrote it with the intention of making it
cross platform.

They probably think SQLBASE is a better bet. The code is most likely
C++/C which can be ported relatively smoothly compared to CTD. Its a
question on whether they are better off putting their resources to .NET
or to Linux. With linux, everyone expects it to be free. MySql only has
3000-4000 paying customers among millions of deployments. Selling a
$5000 IDE to linux users, it is akin to opening a Mercedes Benz store
bang in the middle of Sahara desert where people are accustomed to
getting free camels.

With SQLBASE, its probably a different ball game. Long time back the
MySql database sucked. There were no support to even simple sub-queries.
From what gets reported in the press, MySql has got a lot lot better
and even mighty Oracle has now come up with a porting tool to port MySql
databases to Oracle. So Gupta needs to be cross platform to lower the
TCO of SQLBASE (not having to rely on expensive windows installation).

Best wishes
Karthik

--

Freeware tool for SQLBASE with tons of features
Please visit http://www.iceteagroup.com/Products/SqlEngineer.htt

Martin Knopp

What we need ...

Post by Martin Knopp » 18 Feb 2004, 21:13

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Good points but why not move TD into the Java direction (additionally to
.NET)?

Selling a $5000 IDE for Java doesn't sound so scary - IBM takes $2500 for
its WSAD which is just an extension of the free Eclipse IDE.

Plus then TD would be really cross platform. For me that sounds as visionary
as SQLWindows 1.0 was in the early days of Windows development!

And with the TD for Java you can easily deploy on Linux as well.

Sounds like a solid strategy to me!

BTW: I think SQLBase for Linux is a must have because Linux is getting more
and more momentum on the server side!

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.

fecher GmbH
D'Orsay-Gasse 4/1, A-1090 Wien
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at, web: www.fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0, fax: +43-1-3199124-80

-- Alle Dienstleistungen von fecher im Überlick!
http://www.fecher.at/services/ --

-- Gupta Roadmap für SQLBase und Team Developer mit Themen wie Unicode,
Linux und .NET - informieren Sie sich hier:
http://www.fecher.at/GuptaRoadmapJuly2003 --

-- Windows style web application powered by Team Developer, Building Blocks
XP and ASP.NET here: http://www2.fecher.de/islandweb/ --

J. G. Mischke

What we need ...

Post by J. G. Mischke » 19 Feb 2004, 09:15

 Posted by:  J. G. Mischke 


But once again, I think there no place for a Database loke SQLBase for
LInux. If you want a real SQL-Database you can use PostgreSQL with a lot of
tools for administration. I think, a "samll" version of SqlWIndows for
lInux, without all the overhead of COM+ and other MS-gimmicks, could be a
good idea. And who tells, that Open-Source means "no money for your
software" You HAVE to pay for Kylix, Oracle and other programms for Linux.

Sherlock

What we need ...

Post by Sherlock » 01 Mar 2004, 05:45

 Posted by:  Sherlock 

>

As Stefan pointed out, they need to maintain their existing customers who
might otherwise switch because
of the high cost of the windows operating system + the pain of upgrades.
Large companies and entire countries
are ditching microsoft like there is no tomorrow. China choose SUN platform
for millions of computers.
Vienna(?) Munich have already made their commitment to open source. As
LINUX catches up with windows, more
and more cities and countries are going to ditch microsoft. This is not to
say M$ will be wiped off, but that LINUX growth
cannot be ignored.

From what i heard, my country India was about to make a commitment to open
source and have open source software installed
on millions and millions of computers. Rumor has it that Bill Gates was so
panic stricken that he came to India and
gave 100$ million dollar of his money to fight AIDS !. After that the Indian
government decided against issuing an edict for open source.
So it makes sense for GUPTA to allow SQLBASE customers to have a choice
between M$ and LINUX. It probably wont take
that much resources for them to port SQLBASE to linux. As for POSTGRE etc.,
i dont know much about them and cant comment.

You are right in that CTD needs to be cross platform without MS gimmicks.
But for GUPTA, its a question
of whether they want to invest their resources on LINUX or .NET. They dont
have the few billion dollars
in spare money to do both.

Even for Oracle, you will notice that its a tradeoff. The Oracle Forms
platform can reside in Linux. But AFAIK,
they have no support to .NET. Oracle Forms leant towards java for quite
sometime now.
So it may be tough, if not impossible for GUPTA to satisfy CTD customers who
want .NET and customers who want cross-platform.

One suspects that they chose .NET because of the investment they already
have in M$ architecture. In the immortal words
of Jim Macnamara (?), M$ makes people change technology like underwears.
With longhorn, its going to be a radical change.
GUPTA will have to invest a lot of resources in CTD just to keep up with
M$. So if they start putting their resources on a LINUX version,
they may find that CTD does not work on windows anymore once Bill Gates
orders the world to change their underwear.

Karthik

J. G. Mischke

What we need ...

Post by J. G. Mischke » 01 Mar 2004, 15:37

 Posted by:  J. G. Mischke 


Hi Karthik
So much money for a Linux-version of CTD? I don't think so. A lot of CTD can
be used, the point is to change the GUI, but therefor they have a big
choice like QT, GTK or other. One year, two or 3 developers and a first
beta-version will be possible.

I believe that there is a great potential for a great RAID-Tool like
SqlWindows for Linux NOW, ( Not in 5 or 6 years ) and this will be a good
chance for Centura. (But they will oversleep it, wait and see, because
Salesmanager didn't have visions, they think for ... [don't now it])

Regards

Juergen

Joachim Engel

What we need ...

Post by Joachim Engel » 03 Mar 2004, 10:02

 Posted by:  Joachim Engel 


There is still no demand for development tools like Kylix.
It looks like Borland will stop the further development.

Linux has not gained a remarkable momentum
on the commercial desktop side.

Better Gupta goes with .NET.
Mono delivers a .NET framework for linux:
http://www.go-mono.com/

Kind regards
Joachim Engel

J. G. Mischke

What we need ...

Post by J. G. Mischke » 05 Mar 2004, 09:45

 Posted by:  J. G. Mischke 


And human cannot fly? Kylix is a Delphi / C++ for Linux and Delphi is dead.
(or not good enough) It's only a Winport over CLIX-Libs to Linux. It's not
easy to handle and to learn.

But why? Because there is not a real good RAID-Tool with easy use. And why
we can't sell a good real RAID-Tool. Because there are not enough desktops
with Linux, and we have no programs to run. And why we have no programs.
Because there is not a real good RAID ... and so on

Regards

Juergen Mischke

Joachim Engel

What we need ...

Post by Joachim Engel » 16 Mar 2004, 15:01

 Posted by:  Joachim Engel 


Do you really believe Gupta can change this? =8-)

Kind regards
Joachim Engel

CW Stevenson

What we need ...

Post by CW Stevenson » 31 Mar 2004, 13:39

 Posted by:  CWStevenson 


Yes I do believe GUPTA can change this because they are. The number of
existing customers asking for, and willing to pay for Team Developer for
Linux are over 50 today. That's 50 customers and over 80 new Team Developer
sales. Also, there were about 25 developers who have never used GUPTA who
want to be part of the BETA and, can't wait to start developing Team
Developer applications on Linux.

CWStevenson
COO/CTO GUPTA Technologies

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