forum.marketing.feedback (2000-2005) & forum.gupta.marketing (2005-2010)
Posted by: Roy Mular
My company has put me in charge of gathering information to review the
merits of migrating two sets of the firms application suites to Java. The
situation is that our senior management believes that we have 2 suites of
applications that are on "at risk development platforms".
Suite # 1 ... Developed in IBM VisualAge SmallTalk about 8 years ago.
My recommendation for this application suite is probably already decided:
Migrate the applications to Java as IBM is exiting Smalltalk support.
Suite # 2 .... Developed in Team Developer (originally SQLWindows) 7 years
My recommendation for this application suite is more difficult: Clear
factual information on Gupta is very hard to find. My inclination is to
stay with Team Developer but I have no facts to support this whatsoever.
There are remarks from Mr. Stevenson indicating than Gupta is profitable,
but my CIO is skeptical and believes that this is only due to extreme cost
cutting and staff reductions. Hence, I have a need for clear answers from
Gupta or TD is heading for the same fate as SmallTalk at my company.
There are a few questions that need to be answered:
1. How many people in total work at Gupta as of November 1, 2003? What was
the same figure one year prior?
2. How many staff work in R & D? This figure to exclude any technical
Note: my report to senior management is due at the end of this month as
plans and budgets are being set for next year. The CIO has the belief that
Platinum Equity is just using Gupta as a "cash cow" and milking profits as
the firm exits the market. Mr. Stevenson has made vague remarks that
"particular region have had good growth during certain periods" but solid
facts are always hidden under the convenient veil that Gupta is part of a
larger firm and hence does nor have to provide any solid financial facts.
I must have clear factual information on the above two questions from Gupta.
Posted by: Casual Observer
As a former Gupta die-hard, I have a few observations. First, look at the
recent postings in the .jobnet forum; there a large number [senior] people
available - I would take that to indicate that many projects are coming to a
close with no confidence in Gupta for the future. There is absolutely no
[visible] media either. In my opinion, the outlook is grim.
BUT, has your company ever developed or redeveloped an application of the
scale of your CTD application in Java before? If yes, then your decision is
easy. If not, then be prepared for a lot of pain in the transition. The
key to it all of course is the level of documentation of your apps. Have
you investigated .NET? What will your deployment model be - purely browser
Even tho the the Gupta horizon is bleak, I would be tempted to stick with it
for a while until I have a clear migration strategy well thought out.
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Posted by: Mirko BONANNO
As a former Gupta die-hard you could have used a real name to post your mail
Posted by: Casual Observer
Ah yes, but then that would be admitting I still watch these newsgroups :)
I just wanted to say that CTD was a great tool (in 1993 when SqlWindows 4.0
came out) and so there were some wise decisions made to adopt it in the
first place (and smalltalk as well), and not to underestimate the task of
rebuilding in Java, whether or not the current vendor will be around in a
few years. I got out of CTD when 2.1 was in its prime, and I have to admit
there were no show-stopper bugs in it (or lack of show-stopper features)
which allowed me to sleep at night knowing the current status of Gupta.
Even faced with the worst case, all of my software would continue to work.
I jumped to .NET/c#, which really took only a week to get comfortable in.
First thing I did was convert my framework from CTD to c# and throw out all
the architectural documentation from M$ and continue with the tried & true
methods learned from the CTD days. And its a happy happy world I live in
now. I had a clear migration strategy - I have seen others fail miserably
jumping from CTD to VB or Java without much thought.
Posted by: Catalin Enache
From what I can find on the web:
"Charles Stevenson, chief operating officer for software company Gupta
Technologies, said U.S. programmers actually can benefit from offshoring.
Gupta hired India-based Sonata Software in January 2002 to help with coding
chores. Although some U.S. programmers have been laid off, remaining coders
found they could focus better on their primary projects, Stevenson said.
"The top engineers actually like the outsourcing," he said. "
And looks like at Sonata Software there are 9 developers working at this
Posted by: Jim McNamara
Why don't you call Chuck Stevenson (COO) or Jeff Bailey (CEO/CFO) and have
them address these questions? They may be willing to discuss things under a
non-disclosure agreement that they generally don't released to the public.
Contact info is here:
The original Gupta Corp and Centura took about 7 years to destroy a company.
They did not destroy the products. IMHO, the new Gupta Technologies, LLC
has come a long way toward putting the tools back in the mainstream. They
still have a long way to go from a market share perspective. Recovering a
failed business doesn't happen overnight. First task is to take care of
those that suffered through the bad years, next is the hard part, trying to
recover those that bailed out. Two big players that have stuck it out are
UPS and ADP, both with thousands of deployments of SQLBase and TD
applications to their customers.
Posted by: Peter Seelert
I have had a love/hate relationship with SQLWindows/CTD since 1990; I
love the product, but I'm less than enamoured with the company. Those
who used the product, recognized its elegance and strengths, but for
some reason, Gupta's management teams, and there have been many, could
never parlay those strengths into successful marketing campaigns.
All too often we heard, "Don't worry, be happy. We'll have something
new and better next year." I don't know what was promised in the
North American road show earlier this year. However, I did wonder
about the justification for hosting the Canadian venue in Ottawa.
Does Ottawa have a larger established customer base than the GTA? I
would have thought the current incarnation of Gupta management would
want to bring their latest vision to their clients, rather than force
their customers come to the them. Perhaps I'm wrong. Or, perhaps, a
recent client felt the same when they decided to drop Centura in
favour of .NET and C#. The jobnet forum serves as an epitaph for this
I'd like to thank "Casual Observer" (whoever you are) for your
observations and recommendations. I'm encouraged by your time frame
for coming up to speed with .NET and C#. Do you have a white paper on
Just as Roy's company must make a decision for their future, so must
I. Consequently, it is with sadness that I say farewell to
"When the music's over
Turn out the lights"
- When the Music's Over, The Doors, 1967
Posted by: Martin Teetz
During the past 2 years Gupta has invested a lot into the core products Team
Developer and SQLBase. Since PEH took over Gupta in early 2001, both
products have come a long way, feature and stability wise. We have released
Team Developer 2.1, 3.0 and 3.1 including many many PTFs, SQLBase 7.6.1,
8.0, 8.1 and 8.5 and many PTFs for SQLBase. We have a strong and compelling
future roadmap that includes Team Developer.NET and SQLBase running on
As a privately hold company we do not publish revenue numbers or staff
numbers. But you can rest assured that the total worldwide staff did not
change dramatically during the past 2 years. To deliver on our future
roadmap our Engineering group will rather grow than shrink.
Posted by: Rajiv Haikerwal
As a former employee of Gupta Technologies I am very upset by this
"But you can rest assured that the total worldwide staff did not change
dramatically during the past 2 years."
Can you please explain this? What do you consider dramatic?
Posted by: GTD User
Interesting Raj, tell us more...
Posted by: Rajiv Haikerwal
Posted by: Sue Penrose
As a former employee of Gupta I am also upset with this comment
Posted by: SML
What was the final result here Roy? Did you get a Gupta response?
Is your company going to move away SQLWindows/Team Developer?
Did you find out the staffing numbers? and the profits of Gupta?
Posted by: Ming Chen
Martin Teetz !!!
Aahan seems to be Bull____er
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Posted by: Igor Ivanovic
Ming, (is this your real name?)
If you don't like Gupta products, or even if you don't like Martin,
it's your personal opinion, but there are some golden rules that you
should follow when posting to any newsgroup (not only this one).
Just search the net for "Netiquette".
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