German User Conference 2001

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saridon

German User Conference 2001

Post by saridon » 21 Nov 2001, 14:08

 Posted by:  saridon 

Hi,

Who can write some words about German User Conference 2001 ?

Regards,

Saridon

Roger Kapp

German User Conference 2001

Post by Roger Kapp » 22 Nov 2001, 18:04

 Posted by:  Roger Kapp 

Some short :) words:

CTD 2.1 is available.

CTD 3.0 is in the pipeline (target 2Q02) (as well as SB 8.0).
Database routers will be updated to latest DB release(s).

Gupta will do customer survey(s) in order to find out exactly what we
(customers) need in the futur.
They plan to make final decision on features january-february 2002.

We/You are all encouraged to give our opinion on WHAT features we would like
first.
As understood by everyone, not everything will be doable in first (or even
next) releases.

(I'll start a need thread in order to (try to) find out what features we
want in next (couple of) release(s)).

Mood was good.
Company's manager (both CEO, CTO and especially the new product manager,
Martin Teetz) were very open to customer remarks and suggestions and eager
to hear from us what we want them to do next (so let's use this opportunity
!).

Over 200 attendants (which is at least equal or even more than previous
year(s)).

Little was said about both marketing and strategic vision :-(

Hope this helps as a fist summary ...
(I'm sure others will join with more details ... :-) )

Regards,
Roger

Martin Knopp

German User Conference 2001

Post by Martin Knopp » 22 Nov 2001, 21:22

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

I will write a short summary but it will take some more days :-(

Keep looking at http://www.fecher.de latest after the weekend it should be
online.

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing. [TeamAssist]
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

Martin Knopp

German User Conference 2001

Post by Martin Knopp » 25 Nov 2001, 16:49

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

I have written a short summary which is available at http://www.fecher.de

Have fun!

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing. [TeamAssist]
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

J.Bertram
Germany
Posts: 39
Joined: 21 Mar 2017, 09:15
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

German User Conference 2001

Post by J.Bertram » 26 Nov 2001, 10:02

 Posted by:  Joerg P. Bertram 

------------------------------------------------
What might be interesting for some of you is that in the Team Developer
product line some of the surrounding products like Team Object Manager,
Object Nationalizer, Object Compilier will not be or at least might not be
continued. Personally I like this decision as it will focus all the limited
resources of Gupta on the core product!
-------------------------------------------------

Hi,
thanks for the interesting report. But in one thing I can not agree with
you. For us it is very important to have particularly the product Object
Nationalizer. Our customers uses already there own mask design, which was
created with this product! We also uses the Object Compiler, it speeded up
some CPU expensive work.
Bad news for us. A reason for looking to another product.

Best regards

Joerg Bertram

W.P.Nijhof

German User Conference 2001

Post by W.P.Nijhof » 26 Nov 2001, 12:44

 Posted by:  W.P.Nijhof 

If the Object Compiler is dropped, I hope Gupta open-sources the thing;
at this point, it seems to me that the people who use CTD are more
capable than the people that *write* CTD:-(. I hope that if Gupta plans
to drop features, they will provide reosonable alternatives.

--
WayPay

J.Bertram
Germany
Posts: 39
Joined: 21 Mar 2017, 09:15
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

German User Conference 2001

Post by J.Bertram » 26 Nov 2001, 14:50

 Posted by:  Joerg P. Bertram 


A good joke ;-)

W.P.Nijhof

German User Conference 2001

Post by W.P.Nijhof » 26 Nov 2001, 15:10

 Posted by:  W.P.Nijhof 

Have a bit of faith in humanity, Joerg...

er..

It was kind of funny, wasn't it?
--
WayPay

Roger Kapp

German User Conference 2001

Post by Roger Kapp » 26 Nov 2001, 15:48

 Posted by:  Roger Kapp 

Funny enough, management DOES consider open sourcing as an alternative case
they can't/don't want to maintain it themself.

It was mentionned at the conference for one of the add-ons (I think it was
the compiler).

But remember NO decision as yet been taken (at least that I'm aware off)
regarding those add-ons.
I think it will largely depend on the feedback they'll get from their
customers.

If a large part of their customers use it, their's a good chance they'll
keep it.
Otherwise, let's hope they will be intellignet enough to open the source to
the communitiy ...

Just my 2 cts ...

Regards,
Roger

Scott
Australia
Posts: 451
Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 23:31
Location: Sydney, Australia

German User Conference 2001

Post by Scott » 26 Nov 2001, 23:54

 Posted by:  Scott Booth 

I see press releases like "11/12/2001 Gupta Technologies Focuses on Large
Customer Base and Reinvests in Core Technologies" and think to myself;
great! About time! Team Developer must be a core technology, surely. So
what's this large customer base saying about this core product's
performance? It's so bad that people are choosing to stay with older,
unsupported versions purely because they can't afford to have their systems
run any slower. Why pay a CLS (or GLS or whatever it's called today) to get
upgrades when implementing that upgrade means you'll be worse off?

The Object Compiler was created to address what must be the weakest link in
Gupta's core technologies and far from being dropped, it needs major work.
Focus on this: if a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, that makes
the Object Compiler pretty damned important.

Mike Vandine

German User Conference 2001

Post by Mike Vandine » 27 Nov 2001, 03:26

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine-Gupta 

Scott,

performance? It's so bad that people are choosing to stay with older,
unsupported versions purely because they can't afford to have their systems
run any slower.<<

TD 2.1 has a *major* performance improvement over 2.0 (back to 1.5 levels).

Mike

Scott
Australia
Posts: 451
Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 23:31
Location: Sydney, Australia

German User Conference 2001

Post by Scott » 27 Nov 2001, 07:03

 Posted by:  Scott Booth 

Hi Mike

So I hear - which is terrific news. I really like that the new Gupta has
anounced a return to focusing on core products. I always thought the old
Centura's holy crusade to web-enable the world's electric toilet seat
warmers at the expense of their existing products and customers was a bit
irrational (dare I say; insane in the mbrane?)

It's also great to see that 2.0 PTF3 has performance improvements in it over
PTF2. Not just because the generated code runs faster but more importantly
because it shows that customers are being listened to and their concerns are
being addressed and I can't remember how long it's been since I've been able
to say that about Gupta/Centura/Gupta. Plus there's the pre-release of PTFs
and the new bug reporting system - it all gives me hope, optimism and a new
found feeling of enthusiasm.

BUT - lets face it, whilst a return to 1.5 performance levels is a step in
the right direction, it's just the first step. I've just spent months
re-engineering a TD application purely to speed it up. Whilst our original
programmers were probably able to produce this system in less time than they
would have had they chosen a different development tool, looking at its
whole life cycle, choosing Gupta has not saved us development time.

I can not understand a decision to not pursue the goal of rapid application
development combined with a high performance, reliable end product. You've
got the first part down pretty well but the second leaves a lot to be
desired. What needs to be taken into account is not just how developers
feel about TD, but how their customers (who couldn't care less what a system
was written in) feel about the end result.

Honestly, performance is a major concern. If you can say to me that a
system developed in a future TD will run at a similar speed to one developed
in C++ without using the Object Compiler, then go ahead and dump it.
Otherwise, it's something your customers (and theirs) need and rather than
being dropped it needs some serious work.

Scott

Massimo Rossin

German User Conference 2001

Post by Massimo Rossin » 27 Nov 2001, 15:03

 Posted by:  Massimo Rossin 

Many thanks, Martin!

--
Massimo Rossin

Italsoft Sistemi S.r.l.
Viale Monza, 1 - 20125 Milano (MI) - Italy

Roger Kapp

German User Conference 2001

Post by Roger Kapp » 27 Nov 2001, 17:30

 Posted by:  Roger Kapp 

Scott,

I agree ObjectCompiler **IS** nice (and could be even more powerfull).

Problem is (so far) very few customer use it !
(This is not to say that because there are few, Gupta should drop it ...).

If there were MORE users of it, and/or if those users would raise their
hands, I'm sure the new Gupta will/would fund it ...

Remember ObjectCompiler has NOT (yet) been dropped (to my knowledge) !!!

It will depend on you/us whether or not the product will be maintained,
enhanced or eventually dropped ...

So RAISE you hand/voice :)

Question (which could give Gupta a viable alternative): would you agree to
pay a (reasonable) extra for this (and other) options ?

Just my 2 cts ...

Regards,
Roger

Charles McLouth

German User Conference 2001

Post by Charles McLouth » 27 Nov 2001, 18:43

 Posted by:  Charles McLouth 

To be clear, the Object Compiler has NOT been dropped! We are currently
working on fixing some recently reported defects in it.

I'm interested in discussing the Object Compiler in general terms, with any
of you, though. Primarily because I'd like to be more familiar with its use
in the field. When I was a SAL developer, I used it on occasion, but I never
recieved the significant performance gains indicated in this thread.
Therefore, I'm interested in details of your projects.
charlie
charles.mclouth@guptaworldwide.com
--
Charles McLouth
Manager of Development & Quality Assurance
Gupta Technologies LLC

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