Door on the left, one cross each?

forum.marketing.feedback (2000-2005) & forum.gupta.marketing (2005-2010)
Oleg Zaimkin

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Oleg Zaimkin » 23 Jan 2001, 06:42

 Posted by:  Oleg Zaimkin 

Even superior marketing will not help if quality of your product is below
any understandable level.
Company will never sell business if this business brings money. Look this
http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_reports.asp?symbol=CNTR%60&selected=CNTR%60

for last 96 months - this graph perfectly shows what centura was and what
centura is. People votes with its money.

Oleg.

Bud Ingraham

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Bud Ingraham » 23 Jan 2001, 07:27

 Posted by:  Bud Ingraham 

Oleg,

I have been using Gupta/Centura products for the past 14 years, and for quite
of few of them - part of the team representing the products in Australia. They
were losing market share when they were BY FAR the best product on the market.
The only reason that this was happening was due to horrendous marketing -
particuarlarly in the United States. Believe me, the best marketing campaigns -
such as SOLO was thought of as a failure by the management team. True, it was a
failure, but NOT for the reasons that management thought it was. Gupta/Centura
never followed up on the leads that the SOLO marketing campaign brought. In
fact, they rarely followed up on leads at all, until the leads were absolutely
stone cold - just ask their business partners. Unfortunately in these latter
years, not much has changed. If you wish to market in this software world - you
must take hints for the likes of Microsoft, Oracle, and Sun. The products by
these companies are not that great, but if you were to listen to the hype of
these companies, you would think their products were the greatest thing since
sliced bread. Marketing has made almost all of the difference, IMHO.

G'day,

Bud

Joe Meyer

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Joe Meyer » 23 Jan 2001, 08:58

 Posted by:  Joe Meyer \(ITG\) 

Oleg,

Usually I keep calm when posting here but this time I have to
say that people like you really make me sick. Who the hell do
you think you are to say things like these? If Centura products
are so bad in your eyes, why didn't you switch to Visual
whatever language? You will face more problems there and be
less productive. I find it not understandable that you are
still around using Centura products if you think it's so bad.
Though the products have a few problems, they're basically
great! What you said is polemic, exaggerating, and simply not
true. And you are not in a position to judge. If you know
everything better and can do it with a snap of your finger,
go ahead and become manager of Centura but stop posting things
like that.

--
Joe Meyer, TAO
Ice Tea Group, LLC.
www.iceteagroup.com

Michel de Becdelièvre

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Michel de Becdelièvre » 23 Jan 2001, 09:40

 Posted by:  Michel de Becdelièvre 

Statement : http://www.peh.com/news_releases/centaur_frameset.html

Carlos Simm - Esfera

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Carlos Simm - Esfera » 23 Jan 2001, 15:10

 Posted by:  Carlos Simm - Esfera 

As Arnold:

"I'll be back !"

--

[ ]s

Carlos Simm - Dir. Comercial
Esfera Informática Ltda.
http://www.esfera.com.br
Fone/fax: (041) 254-3534
Phone/Fax: 55-41-254-3534
ICQ 16449832

Sue Penrose escreveu nas notícias de
mensagem:t$FuZDegAHA.1216@talkto.centurasoft.com...

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 23 Jan 2001, 16:17

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

Yes and no. There are many reasons why a company would sell a good product
that makes money and could make even more. One of them being strategy,
another being time, and so on.

Anyway, we can also say that a company like PE (www.peh.com) doesn't reallt
throw $20,000,000 out of the window. Unless you think that PE had $20M to
waste just for fun, which is not a very intelligent assumption to make... I
think that a company that has successfully bought and is succesfully running
other 19 companies like Centura has a bit more expertise than you think.

Ian Rudge

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Ian Rudge » 23 Jan 2001, 18:05

 Posted by:  Ian Rudge 

How does the ITG feel about it all?

Will you still have the same relationship with them?

Ian

Joe Meyer

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Joe Meyer » 23 Jan 2001, 19:00

 Posted by:  Joe Meyer \(ITG\) 

There is no indication so far that anything will change
in the relationship between CNTR and ITG and we're
confident that there will even be more cooperation
in the future.

--
Joe Meyer, TAO
Ice Tea Group, LLC.
www.iceteagroup.com

Michael W. Dietrich

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Michael W. Dietrich » 23 Jan 2001, 19:03

 Posted by:  Michael W. Dietrich 

Just let me ask some assumpptions.

- If I read the numbers centura published in the right way, they still have
a large number of their total turnover from the legacy products.
- the total turnover was round about $56 Million for the last published
fiscal year
- usualy in germany we say you sell a good company at three times the anual
turnover or six times the anual profit.
- even if only 20% of the turnover came from legacy products (which as I
read it more like 60%) but lets say it was 20% then centura still would have
sold that part of the company more than 30% off value($11.2M * 3 = $33.6M
vs. $20M), if it was 60% of the turnover made with legacy its even sold
more than 80% off value($33.6M * 3 ~ $100M vs. $20M)
- So if none of the above assumptions is totaly false the centura management
sold out the legacy (officially eCommerce) product line including the names
centura and gupta 30% to 80% off value.

If that is assumed right, could anyone answer the question how
a) centura eCommerce users should judge that (is probably the worth of the
products 30% to 80% less than they sold it to us) ?
b) centura stock holders should judge that ?
c) What will be the future of products that were dropped by the yearlong
managers of those in such a manner ?

Please notice that I'm still a fan of using any of the centura products but
I do not at all understand the pricing guidelines that management had when
selling all those worthy things for "just some bucks".

regards
Michael

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 23 Jan 2001, 20:04

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 


The price if the deal has absolutely nothing to do with the price of the
product.

Pretty well so far. CNTR stock price went up about more than 50% after the
announcement.

Let's see, does it make any sense that PEH bought CTD and SQLBase simply to
burn $20M?
They have been doing their DD (Due Diligence) for over a two months. Don't
you think they looked at everything they though it was important to look at?
They are running other 19 companies liarger than Centura itself and all of
them are IT companies. Only their own companies would be enough to triple
the sales of CTD and SQLBase!

Oleg Zaimkin

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Oleg Zaimkin » 24 Jan 2001, 06:14

 Posted by:  Oleg Zaimkin 

Thank you for the most literate answer.
I have no reason to trust those guys from ITG because they do marketing here and there. I saw (and I use) their products and must admit their quality is quite near CTD's one. Really not so bad but I'm here to say about little bit different things.
I cannot say anything about Oracle or Sun but I use everyday Microsoft and CTD's tools and Platinum ERwin. Microsoft's ones are far from being perfect but they are much better . They have at least idea there're many technologies around them that seems to be accurately designed. On the contrary I know no piece of CTD where I haven't troubles. IDE UI, memory mgmt, outline, visual classes etc. Those ugly TableWindow (and QuickObjects) that force developers to make monolithic code to access db, display data and manage user input. Last 6 years I participate in really big project and I know things I said about from my personal expirience. I agree 14 years ago they were the best product for MSDOS 2.0 but I told about windows and CTD or SQLWindows. If you said about SQLBase I have opinion too. I used SQLBase 6.0, 6.1, 6.1.1 for 3 years. It MUCH (approx.10 times on TP and up to 50 times on AP) slower than SQLServer 6.5 and much less stable. Our administrators were forced to restart server every 2 hours because huge mem leaks inside server. There was ugly query optimizer.
I must admit that my opinion is not so humble.

Oleg.
Oleg,
I have been using Gupta/Centura products for the past 14 years, and for quite of few of them - part of the team representing the products in Australia. They were losing market share when they were BY FAR the best product on the market. The only reason that this was happening was due to horrendous marketing - particuarlarly in the United States. Believe me, the best marketing campaigns - such as SOLO was thought of as a failure by the management team. True, it was a failure, but NOT for the reasons that management thought it was. Gupta/Centura never followed up on the leads that the SOLO marketing campaign brought. In fact, they rarely followed up on leads at all, until the leads were absolutely stone cold - just ask their business partners. Unfortunately in these latter years, not much has changed. If you wish to market in this software world - you must take hints for the likes of Microsoft, Oracle, and Sun. The products by these companies are not that great, but if you were to listen to the hype of these companies, you would think their products were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Marketing has made almost all of the difference, IMHO.

G'day,

Bud

Joe Meyer

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Joe Meyer » 24 Jan 2001, 06:38

 Posted by:  Joe Meyer \(ITG\) 

If I were you I'd drop Sqlwindows/Sqlbase and switch to Microsoft tools.

--
Joe Meyer, TAO
Ice Tea Group, LLC.
www.iceteagroup.com

Martin Knopp

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Martin Knopp » 24 Jan 2001, 06:50

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Oleg,

Your personal insults on ITG peope are absolutley misplaced here!!!!!! They
did and do a tremendous amount of work for the Centura community and deserve
our respect. Their products are top quality and if a defect shows up (which
will happen in every piece of software) its fixed asap. Just take a look at
their newsgroups to see that I am right!

Anyway, I agree with Joe, you should strongly consider dropping CTD and
SQLBase and move on with M$ C++, VB, SQL-Server.

Well, I am pretty sure you will happily get back to CTD within the next
12-24 months after you failed badly doing so or your company will go out of
business due to missed deadlines and unmaintainable code!

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

Thank you for the most literate answer.
I have no reason to trust those guys from ITG because they do marketing here
and there. I saw (and I use) their products and must admit their quality is
quite near CTD's one. Really not so bad but I'm here to say about little bit
different things.
I cannot say anything about Oracle or Sun but I use everyday Microsoft and
CTD's tools and Platinum ERwin. Microsoft's ones are far from being perfect
but they are much better . They have at least idea there're many
technologies around them that seems to be accurately designed. On the
contrary I know no piece of CTD where I haven't troubles. IDE UI, memory
mgmt, outline, visual classes etc. Those ugly TableWindow (and QuickObjects)
that force developers to make monolithic code to access db, display data and
manage user input. Last 6 years I participate in really big project and I
know things I said about from my personal expirience. I agree 14 years ago
they were the best product for MSDOS 2.0 but I told about windows and CTD or
SQLWindows. If you said about SQLBase I have opinion too. I used SQLBase
6.0, 6.1, 6.1.1 for 3 years. It MUCH (approx.10 times on TP and up to 50
times on AP) slower than SQLServer 6.5 and much less stable. Our
administrators were forced to restart server every 2 hours because huge mem
leaks inside server. There was ugly query optimizer.
I must admit that my opinion is not so humble.

Oleg.
Oleg,
I have been using Gupta/Centura products for the past 14 years, and for
quite of few of them - part of the team representing the products in
Australia. They were losing market share when they were BY FAR the best
product on the market. The only reason that this was happening was due to
horrendous marketing - particuarlarly in the United States. Believe me, the
best marketing campaigns - such as SOLO was thought of as a failure by the
management team. True, it was a failure, but NOT for the reasons that
management thought it was. Gupta/Centura never followed up on the leads
that the SOLO marketing campaign brought. In fact, they rarely followed up
on leads at all, until the leads were absolutely stone cold - just ask their
business partners. Unfortunately in these latter years, not much has
changed. If you wish to market in this software world - you must take hints
for the likes of Microsoft, Oracle, and Sun. The products by these
companies are not that great, but if you were to listen to the hype of these
companies, you would think their products were the greatest thing since
sliced bread. Marketing has made almost all of the difference, IMHO.

G'day,

Bud

Oleg Zaimkin

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Oleg Zaimkin » 24 Jan 2001, 09:40

 Posted by:  Oleg Zaimkin 

Our company succeed with SQLServer 4 years ago. I we still stay on SQLBase
we'd get out of business. We aren't doing desktop application if anyone here
thinks so.
Also I know many success stories from people doing their products using MS
technologies. As for companies failed with MS or Delphi just compare number
of projects made with CTD and VB/Delphi. You'll got 1:100 or more. Another
side is that most companies doing with MS's stuff haven't enough experience
or education simply because VB seems to be so simple so anyone thinks he can
do anything. That's wrong.

I'm sorry but your attitude to CTD seems to be fanatic. I said "Microsoft",
"Delphi" and "ERwin" just for example so don't number me as microsoft
apologet.

Sincerely,
Oleg.

Mike Vandine

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Mike Vandine » 24 Jan 2001, 10:11

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine-Centura 

Oleg,

Come into the real world. SQLBase is up to version 7.5.1 (with 7.6 coming in February). Things have gotten *immensely* better in all areas, not just performance and stability.

But, then again, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Best regards,

Mike Vandine
Thank you for the most literate answer.
I have no reason to trust those guys from ITG because they do marketing here and there. I saw (and I use) their products and must admit their quality is quite near CTD's one. Really not so bad but I'm here to say about little bit different things.
I cannot say anything about Oracle or Sun but I use everyday Microsoft and CTD's tools and Platinum ERwin. Microsoft's ones are far from being perfect but they are much better . They have at least idea there're many technologies around them that seems to be accurately designed. On the contrary I know no piece of CTD where I haven't troubles. IDE UI, memory mgmt, outline, visual classes etc. Those ugly TableWindow (and QuickObjects) that force developers to make monolithic code to access db, display data and manage user input. Last 6 years I participate in really big project and I know things I said about from my personal expirience. I agree 14 years ago they were the best product for MSDOS 2.0 but I told about windows and CTD or SQLWindows. If you said about SQLBase I have opinion too. I used SQLBase 6.0, 6.1, 6.1.1 for 3 years. It MUCH (approx.10 times on TP and up to 50 times on AP) slower than SQLServer 6.5 and much less stable. Our administrators were forced to restart server every 2 hours because huge mem leaks inside server. There was ugly query optimizer.
I must admit that my opinion is not so humble.

Oleg.
Oleg,
I have been using Gupta/Centura products for the past 14 years, and for quite of few of them - part of the team representing the products in Australia. They were losing market share when they were BY FAR the best product on the market. The only reason that this was happening was due to horrendous marketing - particuarlarly in the United States. Believe me, the best marketing campaigns - such as SOLO was thought of as a failure by the management team. True, it was a failure, but NOT for the reasons that management thought it was. Gupta/Centura never followed up on the leads that the SOLO marketing campaign brought. In fact, they rarely followed up on leads at all, until the leads were absolutely stone cold - just ask their business partners. Unfortunately in these latter years, not much has changed. If you wish to market in this software world - you must take hints for the likes of Microsoft, Oracle, and Sun. The products by these companies are not that great, but if you were to listen to the hype of these companies, you would think their products were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Marketing has made almost all of the difference, IMHO.

G'day,

Bud

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