Door on the left, one cross each?

forum.marketing.feedback (2000-2005) & forum.gupta.marketing (2005-2010)
Oleg Zaimkin

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Oleg Zaimkin » 24 Jan 2001, 10:33

 Posted by:  Oleg Zaimkin 

I hope and I believe SQLBase 7.xx is much better than 6.xx but proverb says "projectile doesn't drop to the same funnel twice".

Oleg.

Frank (ITG)

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Frank (ITG) » 24 Jan 2001, 11:20

 Posted by:  Frank (ITG) 

We have been and still are using SQLBase 6.1.2 for years now with an
estimated
user base of 800 on at least 10 different locations on various OS.
I can share your experiences *IN NO WAY*.
We had almost no problems and the installed database really need ZERO
ADMINISTRATION.
(An approach that most other database vendors failed on).
It is also heavily used as a local database on notebooks and here we have
the same experiences.
SQLBase is one of the most stable and productive databases I´ve ever met.

Regards,
Frank Boettcher
Ice Tea Group, LLC
www.iceteagroup.com
...
I hope and I believe SQLBase 7.xx is much better than 6.xx but proverb
says "projectile doesn't drop to the same funnel twice".

Michel de Becdelièvre

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Michel de Becdelièvre » 24 Jan 2001, 11:47

 Posted by:  Michel de Becdelièvre 

Does anyone knows where the newsgroups and PTF will be transfered, and
if there will be "a temporary suspension of service" in February ?

Roger Kapp

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Roger Kapp » 24 Jan 2001, 15:36

 Posted by:  Roger Kapp 

Joe,

I totally agree this move "COULD" be a good thing.

Question is: WILL IT (be a good thing).

We have all been fed with promises, not all of them being hold, for the last
... (please don't force me to count :-( ;-) ) years.

I'm afraid Centura's customers WONT buy on promises any longer !

What will the next management tell us ?

"We believe in Centura's future and we are commited to promote and invest in
the company's tools and we look forward to see the company's market share
grow to a significant and critical one in the next couple of month or
years".

Doesn't it sound like something we've allready heard (a coupe of times) in
the past ?
Maybe this time IT IS TRUE !

How can we tell !

Unless PEH WILL show (allmost) immediatly SOME CONCRETE commitments, this
change will result in (again) a lack of confidence in ex-Centura's market,
and we definitly DONT NEED this !

What concrete commitments do I expect ?

A strong commitment to the existing products road-map.
A strong commitment in soon to come/future enhancements.
And an even stronger commitment in a marketing plan to PROMOTE those tools,
and plans.

If there's NO **concrete** commitment from the new management in the area of
marketing, I will seriously consider (longer term) alternate solutions to
Centura.

Noticed it's allready 6 days since the anouncement (given this deal was
prepared and settled at least a month or so) and there's still NO NEWS from
the new management ?
Yes, I know, there's a (general purpose) news relelase on PEH's web site.

But who's the new CEO ?
Who's the new CTO ? and CFO ?

When will we see and/or hear them ? And have a chance to enter in contact
with them ?

I would have expected the new (and actually also the old management) to post
some "road-map" indicating that "within 10 days we will publish a statement
regarding ex-Centura's future and within 1 month or so, we hope to finalize
the company's first sales and marketing initiatives (and maybe post here on
this news group in order to learn to know each others).

Oh well, I'm still dreaming ... :-)

Regards,
Roger

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 24 Jan 2001, 15:40

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

I'm happy to hear that you use and like our products. Are you using the trial versions? I can't find your company in our licensed users.

--
Best regards,
Gianluca
Ice Tea Group, LLC
--
http://www.iceteagroup.com

Thank you for the most literate answer.
I have no reason to trust those guys from ITG because they do marketing here and there. I saw (and I use) their products and must admit their quality is quite near CTD's one. Really not so bad but I'm here to say about little bit different things.
I cannot say anything about Oracle or Sun but I use everyday Microsoft and CTD's tools and Platinum ERwin. Microsoft's ones are far from being perfect but they are much better . They have at least idea there're many technologies around them that seems to be accurately designed. On the contrary I know no piece of CTD where I haven't troubles. IDE UI, memory mgmt, outline, visual classes etc. Those ugly TableWindow (and QuickObjects) that force developers to make monolithic code to access db, display data and manage user input. Last 6 years I participate in really big project and I know things I said about from my personal expirience. I agree 14 years ago they were the best product for MSDOS 2.0 but I told about windows and CTD or SQLWindows. If you said about SQLBase I have opinion too. I used SQLBase 6.0, 6.1, 6.1.1 for 3 years. It MUCH (approx.10 times on TP and up to 50 times on AP) slower than SQLServer 6.5 and much less stable. Our administrators were forced to restart server every 2 hours because huge mem leaks inside server. There was ugly query optimizer.
I must admit that my opinion is not so humble.

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 24 Jan 2001, 15:45

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

Roger, your doubts are perfectly justified. And I share some of them.
However, at this point, what's few more months? The deal is not done yet,
the press release says it will be finalized at the end of February. Until
then there is no way they are going to announce anything, they simply can't.

--
Best regards,
Gianluca
Ice Tea Group, LLC
--
http://www.iceteagroup.com

Roger Kapp

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Roger Kapp » 24 Jan 2001, 16:11

 Posted by:  Roger Kapp 

Michael (and Gianluca (and others :-) )),

I ask myself the same questions.
Actually I'm even questioning the deal more than Michael does.

First: From what I know from Centura, 80% (or maybe even 90%) of it's
business came from it's "legacy" division.

What's the sense of selling 90% of your business in order to "concentrate"
on the remaining 10% ?!?!?!?!?
No question this will "concentrate" them :-)

Now look at the deal from a different perspective.

1 1/2 year ago, Centura bought Raima.
18 month later, Raima sells Centura ...

Isn't there something ... strange in this deal ?

The management has been concentrating it's efforts (and money) on the
"mobile" business (for over a year now), mobile having nothing to do with
ex-Centura's business.
At the expense of existing tools (and customers (and partners)).

So in other words.
Centura bought Raima, paid ex-Raima's R&D and now sells itself, in order to
give ex-Raima's business a better futur !

And we, ex-Centura loyal customers (AND shareholders) are supposed to be
"happy" ?!?

If that was the deal, why didn't management just move from Centura to Raima
and leave the company alone, hence give it a chance !

Maybe I'm just thinking too much ...

Regards,
Roger

Joe Meyer

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Joe Meyer » 24 Jan 2001, 16:24

 Posted by:  Joe Meyer \(ITG\) 

Roger,

Current status is that both parties agreed to the deal, that's
all.
As for new initiatives, how could they come up with something
like this already, PEH hasn't even taken over yet. They've got
plenty of organizational work to do and they'll have to figure
out who will be CEO/COO/CFO/CTO. If this is done, they can start
thinking about whatever they can do to improve both, products and
marketing. That will certainly take some time and the impact of
any changes will even take more time. At least we can assume
that the new company (Centura/PEH/Gupta, or whatever the name
will be) will *not* be focussed on mobile business but instead
focus on the traditional products. I like the fact that it's no
longer a mix of Client/Server and mBusiness products because I
always found that this was a conflict by nature. And certainly
PEH wants to make money with the company they've acquired so
they are forced to take necessary steps.
I understand that everybody's eager to see new features but I
don't expect any general short-term changes (meaning within the
next 1 or 2 months). They have to finish the takeover before
making new plans anyway.
However, there's still people working on the products. As Mike
reported, there will be a new release of Sqlbase in February.
ITG is working on Hydra which is scheduled for release early Q3.
And be assured that we have plenty of ideas for improving CTD.
Behind the scenes there is a lot of research going on and I
truely hope that ITG's cooperation with Centura will continue
after Hydra. Honestly, I see the future of CTD much brighter
than in the past, especially since the Hydra project.

sometimes dreams come true... :-)

--
Joe Meyer, TAO
Ice Tea Group, LLC.
www.iceteagroup.com

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 24 Jan 2001, 17:55

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 


That's right! But it should be one more reason to be positive about this
deal. Isn't it?
Now this company (PEH www.peh.com), which has deep pockets, a lot of
expertise, 19 other IT companies to rely on, and $20M that they HAVE to get
back with interestes in order to justify thise deal from their point of
view. This means that they HAVE to sell a minimum of $60M worth of products
in the next 2-3 years. Consider resellers discounts, operating expenses,
etc...

Now, you have a company that has absolutely nothing to do with Centura/Gupta
past, a very positive attitude toward the products (it cannot be any
different, can it?), and willing (needing) to improve the market share and
improve the products. I don't see what else could anybody want?

Of course everything can turn out to be a failure, like anything else.
However some people here are never happy with anything. They are simply
criticizing because it's probably in their nature to create problems instead
of looking for solutions. What do you think these people expect? That
suddenly every company on earth starts using CTD? That every other tool has
a deadly unfixable bug? Centura finds an hidden bank account with $10B? CTD
code becomes better by itself overnight? To those people I can only say: get
real!

Michael W. Dietrich

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Michael W. Dietrich » 24 Jan 2001, 22:34

 Posted by:  Michael W. Dietrich 


well actually you might be right, but the price of the deal should have to
do with the worth of the product.

Its not hard to rise a stock temporarily if you "fire" (just to leave out
the word "sell") over 80% of your staff and foreign expenses and everyone
knows that the earnings of at least the last quarter + the $20M to say the
least are now not eaten up anymore by salaries and foreign offices. Even I
could make some bucks by doing stock speculations on that. What I ment were
the long term results of selling the heart of a company and the body with it
to stay with some bones and future expectations. Not even in the US stock
markets they do pay future expectations anymore since a few months as I
heard ;-)

Even Scott Bromfield was eager about the products when he hab looked at them
for two months or so those days of the munich conference (1999 or was it
even 1998 ?). I actually ment why are people who know the prodcut for two or
three years now instead of two months so eager to sell it 30% to 80% or as
roger kapp mentioned more than 90% off price ?

And gianluca lets just remember the biggest takeover-deal of the IT-history
CAI bought another "platinum" (sic!) some years ago for §13B (Billion) just
to get their products out of the market. They did not even write one new
line of code to a marveless and at least in germany broughtly used tool like
erwin (actually they did not even give it a new box but just sell it since
1998 in the platinum box). So I would not be too shure that $20M which is a
little bit more than 0.1 percent of the cai/platinum deal are not ment to
burn the products.

so - many open questions stay open

regards
Michael

Michael W. Dietrich

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Michael W. Dietrich » 24 Jan 2001, 22:38

 Posted by:  Michael W. Dietrich 

get

As I'm not so well informed, where can I get just some of the names of those
other companies, just to look what has happened to their products since they
were taken over by platinum.

Well e.g. you could want a clear and open commitment of the platinum guys
and not only some words like "will be announced within 30 days"...

you should not mix up scepticism and carefull business people with one
another. If the lemmings were carefull business people they would probably
see the one or the other problem before they find the final solution ;-)

regards
Michael

Frank (ITG)

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Frank (ITG) » 24 Jan 2001, 22:49

 Posted by:  Frank \(ITG\) 


http://www.peh.com/representative_acquisition.html

--
Regards,
Frank Boettcher
Ice Tea Group, LLC
http://www.iceteagroup.com

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by luca.pivato » 24 Jan 2001, 23:12

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

"At Platinum Equity, our mission is to build value in the companies we
acquire and own, providing each with the resources it needs to realize its
strategic business potential."

http://www.peh.com/index_1.html

For a list of companies look at:

http://www.peh.com/representative_acquisition.html

“We are excited to acquire Centura’s client/server software business,” said
Tom T. Gores, president and CEO of Platinum Equity. “The Centura products
and services are assets that we’re eager to work with. From building on the
blue chip customer base to expanding the services, tools and operations, we’
re committed to leading Centura through an intense period of growth and
revitalization.”

http://www.peh.com/news_releases/centaur_frameset.html

About the stock price of CNTR, your are right that hype easily pushes the
price up, nevertheless it's a fact that the price is higher for the
announcement. It can go lower tomorrow, who knows... In any case, if you are
a CNTR investor you have a different set of concerns from a CTD developers.
For a Centura investor the deal might be a great or it might be bad, they
simply don't know for sure yet. For a CTD developer all it should matter is
if the tool is going to be enhanced or abandoned.

As of now all indicators say that this is the first real chance in years to
have a better tool! This is just my opinion and hope.

--Gianluca

Mike Vandine

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Mike Vandine » 24 Jan 2001, 23:15

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine-Centura 

Michel,

There should be *no* interruption of services. It says that here in fine
print!
--
Mike Vandine-Centura Software
[TeamAssist]
-----------------

Mike Vandine

Door on the left, one cross each?

Post by Mike Vandine » 24 Jan 2001, 23:24

 Posted by:  Mike Vandine-Centura 

Michael,

and not only some words like "will be announced within 30 days"...<<

I'm seeing this commitment from the inside. It is *definitely* there! BTW,
go to www.peh.com and have a look at the 'representative companies' listing.
You'll recognize some of them, I'm sure.

Mike

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