Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

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luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by luca.pivato » 30 Nov 2000, 16:43

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

I don't like the new licensing system as well, but:

1-unfortunatly this is the case for everything. To stop some dishonest
people, the honest ones have to endure some additional difficulties. This
happens in any field and it's a fact. The real question is how much
additional difficulties are the honests willing to bear.
2-I'm not furios and many other developers I know are not either. It's
annoying, I agree, but not enough to be furios.
3-Probably not, it depends on the C/C++ compiler. For a development system I
surely would not do it for VB, but for CTD I'm actually using it.
4-no comment. :(
5-you can report bugs to Centura without paying anything, that's what we are
all doing. Try to report a bug or to get help about professional Microsoft
product. You need a contract or you need to pay per incident (PPI) an
unreasonable amount of money and most of the times the person that talks to
you is a high school graduate that is reading off a prewritten script.
Microsoft newsgroups are in the hundreds and you basically never get an
answer.
6-let's hope not.

My own personal conclusions: I agree with you, CTD is a great product and it
will be much better soon. The current license system sucks, Centura knows it
pretty well and they are trying to fix it. However there must be a licensing
system in place. There are too many pirate copies around, mostly in the
east. I think that if Centura will use, as Patrick has stated, some standard
web based registering tool, as most of the products out there do, I for one
will be happy.

Ciao,
Gianluca

Martin Knopp

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Martin Knopp » 30 Nov 2000, 17:49

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Charity,

Thanks for letting us know!

Great to hear that Centura did listen to its customers and provides a
solution that is more user friendly even so it makes the license system much
less secure.

PLEASE: All CTD users be fair and do not pirate this software even so with
the new license installer that would be possible again. You would not only
hurt Centura but much more all customers which bought legal licenses!

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

Martin Knopp

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Martin Knopp » 30 Nov 2000, 17:53

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Gianluca,

I fully agree with what you said.

I could even live with a node-locked system if I could get my license key
from a webpage immediately and if there would be a solution for situations
like OS changes, system failures (HDD replacements) and the like. However a
web-based registration that is not node-locked but also efficiently prevents
piracy would be much more welcome here either!

Patrick, thanks for the official statement from Centura!

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

Scott
Australia
Posts: 375
Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 23:31
Location: Sydney, Australia

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Scott » 01 Dec 2000, 00:03

 Posted by:  Scott Booth 

I moved from NT4 to Win2k - I should point out that I did a complete install
and a simple upgrade may or may not work fine. All I can say is that after
switching OS, the licence manager happily accepted the number based on the
old OS but CTD then refused to run because it was now incorrect. It also
refused to let me switch back to an evaluation licence.

After being sent several incorrect codes the problem was fixed but it took a
lot longer than the 1 or 2 days quoted. I should also say that this was in
the early days of this (incomprehensibly suicidal) scheme and I assume
things are now running much more smoothly.

Here's a couple of questions I'd like answers for:-
1) If this licensing system was implemented to increase sales by decreasing
piracy, HAVE SALES INCREASED?
2) If sales have increased, have they increased by enough to make up for the
people who have felt forced to switch to other platforms?

Bud Ingraham

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Bud Ingraham » 01 Dec 2000, 07:15

 Posted by:  Bud Ingraham 

To all,

Out of curiosity, can anyone name a competitor's product which has implemented
such a restrictive licensing scheme?

Thanks,

Bud

Martin Knopp

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Martin Knopp » 01 Dec 2000, 07:46

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Does CTD have any competitors? Its outstanding!

No to be honest I think in the Windows world such licensing schemes are not
usual even so I personally would accept them for a tool like CTD. Anyway I
think to get acceptance on a broad basis some more customer friendly and
therefore less secure solutions have to be implemented in upcoming CTD
releases and seeing the recent postings from Centura representatives (Patrik
Bernard and Charity Silkebakken) we all know that they are working on
adressing this topic.

Anyway if you look at other platforms like AS/400 for example. I definitely
know that comparable development tools like CTD do have such restrictive
licensing schemas and nobody even thinks about complaining. Its absolutely
usual there and you have the same hassles when you move on the another
machine and so on.

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

wilhelm
Germany
Posts: 195
Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 08:49
Location: Cologne

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by wilhelm » 01 Dec 2000, 10:27

 Posted by:  Wilhelm Speck 

Hi Martin,

I thought you where missing in this discussion! ;-)

Could you please explain, what is the difference between the
"licence installer" and the "old" system.
As I understand it, you are allowed to install it 3 times. Has there
anything changed with the so called "node locking"?
Perhaps you could make clear what is involved with it and more importantly,
what are the odds?
The licensing web page doesn´t really explain anything.

B.T.W: I personally think it will be much too late, if we have to wait for
the next release to put this node issue away.

Wilhelm

P.S.
Well, you meant this to be a joke, but that´s how the behave. :(
I think this has done much more damage to the product and the image of
Centura, than piracy ever could have.

George
Russia
Posts: 306
Joined: 03 Sep 2018, 05:57
Location: Moscow, Russia

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by George » 01 Dec 2000, 12:23

 Posted by:  George Panov 

Lame arguments, Martin!

Maybe CTD should be moved from Windows to AS/400 to prove using of such
licensing schema? :))
Why don't you say that Centura also should release their products with
source code as it's usual for Linux? :))
AFAIK, we are talking about application from Windows world, aren't we?!. :))

A agree that, CTD is wonderfull ( maybe the best ) development system but we
(CTD developers) are ready to buy CTD for producing our own software and
earning money, but not for playing in odd security games of Centura. It's
very pity that Centura can't understand it till now :(

BTW: Oliver and people dissatisfied by CTD2000!
What is the matter, guys? Take it easy! Take your money back ( if you
could ), still use good old CTD versions, forget about doubtful values of
CTD2000 and its imbecile "restrictive licensing schemas" and search for new
development tool ( For example, I'm looking forward for Visual Studio.NET ).
I can't understand your reason to complain but still using ( or trying to
start using ) this product. IMHO it's just waste of time, money and energy.

George
:)

P.S. Hope, Centura managers will understand that they were wrong with
marketing politics at least when they lost their last European /Asian
customer. :(

Greg Moyer

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Greg Moyer » 01 Dec 2000, 15:16

 Posted by:  Greg Moyer 

Patrick, I posted here before CTD2000, and I'll post this again. Do not put any
restrictive dongle like licensing software on your products. You will seal
their doom. I can already say "I TOLD YOU SO". Don't make me have to say it
again in the future. Whoever you have there at Centura that is driving this
initiative needs to be replaced!

Your time and expertise would be far better spent on making the product better
and bug free. You people should allow your users to properly BETA test all your
PTF's. This is where you need to spend time and money, as this is where your
investment will mostly pay off. So the person that you replace that other
person with (see above), should make this his/her driving force.



Martin Knopp

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Martin Knopp » 01 Dec 2000, 16:33

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Wilhelm,

Good to see that someone appreciates my participation ;-)

The "license installer" that Centura ships now and that Charity Silkebakken
mentioned is no longer depending on a specific machine!

But the TERMS of the LICENSE AGREEMENT requires that a single CTD license is
only USED BY ONE DEVELOPER and only installed on A MAXIMUM OF THREE MACHINES
AT THE SAME TIME FOR (EXCLUSIVE) USE BY THIS DEVELOPER! If you remove it
from one machine or the HDD crashes and you replace it or you upgrade the OS
on a machine (or whatever situation anyone might come up with) you do not
need to contact Centura again. Simple take the license installer that you
already have [I recommend copying it on at least three different kinds of
media and lock them away in three different secure places :-)))] and reapply
it on that machine. Replacing *any* hardware component in a machine does not
invalidate the license key because its no longer hardware dependent, so in
that case you do not even have to reapply it! BTW: The "old" license key
would have been only dependent on the HDD serial number either AFAIK, so
changing anything except the HDD would not have been a problem even with the
"old" key.

Hope thats clear enough for anyone out here.

AGAIN THIS LESS RESTRICTIVE SYSTEM SHOULD NOT BE AN INVITATION FOR ANYONE TO
PIRATE CTD.

--
Martin Knopp, Dipl. Ing.
fecher GmbH / Österreich
Geschäftsführer / Managing Director
email: Martin.Knopp@fecher.at
phone: +43-1-3199124-0
fax: +43-1-3199124-80

Carsten Barner Nielsen

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Carsten Barner Nielsen » 01 Dec 2000, 16:40

 Posted by:  Carsten Barner Nielsen[ITG][TAO] 

Hi Bud,

Since you ask:

Remedy www.remedy.com - the server install is tied to the machine.
SAS www.sas.com - You cannot buy the SAS system. You license it for 1 year.
Each and every year you'll have to read in a new license on each client.
Imagine what a pain it is if your have let's say 2500+ pc's!:)

I would not call them competitors, but they are developing languages.

--

Regards,

Carsten Barner Nielsen
[Ice Tea Group, LLC]
--
http://www.iceteagroup.com

luca.pivato
United States of America
Posts: 620
Joined: 10 May 2017, 23:43
Location: USA

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by luca.pivato » 01 Dec 2000, 17:28

 Posted by:  Gianluca ITG 

Anyway, as Martin already pointed out again, Centura has dropped it! Maybe
too late, maybe not. Why keep arguing? Was the choice wrong, yes! We all
agreed a long time ago. It has been fixed, shall we keep arguing if it was a
wrong choice? Nice way to spend time...

If the reason to switch to other wonderful tools, like VB.NET is the
licensing system, it's not a reason anymore. If the reason are others, it's
simply a choice.

Ciao,
Gianluca

Martin Knopp

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Martin Knopp » 01 Dec 2000, 18:11

 Posted by:  Martin Knopp 

Gianluca,

Well spoken!

Ciao,
Martin

Bud Ingraham

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Bud Ingraham » 02 Dec 2000, 09:36

 Posted by:  Bud Ingraham 

Hi Carsten,

You are correct, and I think that you also agree that a product should not
diverge significantly from its much better selling competitors ( not better,
but better selling ). The competitors of CTD are NOT the pseudo-mainframe -
AS/400 or as you rightly pointed out SAS. The real competitors are VB,
Powerbuilder, C++, Java, and in the very near future C#. Centura could do well
to learn marketing techniques from the likes of MicroSoft!

All the best,

Bud

Bud Ingraham

Warning: Do not develop with CTD2000

Post by Bud Ingraham » 02 Dec 2000, 10:04

 Posted by:  Bud Ingraham 

Hi Gianluca,

Unfortunately, I agree with you on the intent of Centura is that they are trying
to fix this situation. I know we also agree that it should never have
occurred. But, I do NOT think the problem is solved yet - far from it. I still
have a bit of a problem.

First - the ground work. CTD is a great product ( and by the way, your
extensions to the product are VERY well done Gianluca! ).

Second - there are developers who would like to change exclusively over to VB in
our shop for the sole reason that they want to do more development in a language
that they feel will enhance their own marketablility.

Third - there has been a big push by the network folks to simplify installations
of PCs, etc. - and herein lies my problem.

We purchase several licenses for the various developers that are using the
product. But, the Network Admin folks instist that software should be installed
on the server for ease of administration. This is a perfectly sensible request
on their part, as long as the necessary individual licenses are purchased.

We currently have CTD 1.5 installed on the network. It doesn't sound as if I
can install CTD 2000 on the network. I would LOVE to use CTD 2000, and would
purchase the requisit individual licenses, but I will NOT recommend upgrading if
the installs have to go onto individual machines. The fight is just NOT worth
it.

Soooooo, since not one sales person from Centura has ever called me to sell me
on upgrading, I am ignoring the upgrade and will stick with CTD 1.5. Of course,
if Centura wants some more money, they can drop ALL locking schemes, and I will
probably upgrade immediately.

One final point.

1. Centura has said in the past that they implemented the locking scheme so
they will know who their customers are. Centura has on file our license numbers
- but what do they do with that information? I have NOT been contacted by
Centura Sales to ask if I wish to upgrade. If Centura wishes to make some
fairly easy money, they should have already have done this. And I doubt that I
am alone....

All the best,

Bud

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